cassandra

How to Have An Exceptionally Happy Birthday

If no one else tells you, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

I LOVE my birthday. It’s on February 13th and my 13th birthday was on a Friday. (I subsequently have a love for Friday the 13th, but that’ll be a separate post.) And I really love a HAPPY Birthday.

My 24th birthday was also a Friday and I spent it in LONDON AND PARIS.

I have been fortunate to have some AMAZING birthdays.

As a result, my less-than-successful birthdays have left me crying, mascara-stained and alone in my bathroom. But I was so lucky to realize something that ended all unhappy birthdays and I want to share it with you—

YOU must CHOOSE to ENJOY the day.

Even if you’re alone.

Even if you want others to celebrate you and they won’t.

If it matters to you, YOU must celebrate you.

And you have permission to have a GOOD DAY!

Here’s what I do:

Plan in advance… but not too much. You know what you like. If no one in your life is going to plan something for you, or you’re traveling solo, or out of town for work, it’s on YOU to celebrate you. That’s okay, because YOU are going to do exactly what you want. I have a list of ideas at the bottom of this post if you find yourself staring blankly.
I don’t hide that it’s my birthday. It’s dumb, but my worst birthdays were spent this way. I’d play this naive game of “who can see me?” and not tell my friends—the people who would want MOST to celebrate with me—THAT IT WAS MY BIRTHDAY. I’m not saying you need to flaunt it or be a brat. But if you want to wear a tiara, a sequins shirt, and a tutu—GO FOR IT. You can also send this post to a friend to let them know some ideas you’re looking at.
No, really, DO mention it. People generally want to feel empowered to help other people. When the timing is right (positive), mention it to servers, Uber drivers, colleagues, neighbors, anyone you encounter. By telling them it’s your birthday, you give them the option to celebrate you. This isn’t something you lord over others—you don’t DESERVE anything. But if you mention it appropriately, you might find little celebrations throughout your day.
Smile all day. When you smile, the world smiles with you. And when they don’t, you’re still smiling.
Accept that it’s not a perfect day. There could be little hiccups through the day, so know and accept that in advance. Perfection is a joy-stealing liar. Focus on being grateful for the delicious salad you had for lunch (sorry about the hair) and the gift from your boss (yay, another pair of comical socks). How you frame the day is 100% going to determine how much you enjoy yourself.

This will also help you practice:

Caring less what people say.
Loving yourself more.
Looking for ways to constantly enjoy life instead of hoping it will just happen.

Ideas for a Happy Birthday

Eat dessert first
Invite your friends (with advance notice—don’t self-sabotage) to lunch or dinner, and if not sit at the bar in your favorite restaurant
Get a massage
Get your nails done if you don’t normally
Buy yourself a balloon or flowers to carry all day
Carry a small bottle of bubbles and randomly blow them in the day, as needed. (When you’re waiting anywhere, at the end of a meeting, after dessert. You know best.)

Is this list missing something?

Let me know in the comments below!

Bonus Happy Birthday Message

Get an email from me on your birthday! Sign up here to make sure you get a birthday greeting from a real human (ME!).

What does my anxious friend with cancer really need?

Anxiety and Cancer and Friendship

Sometimes those of us with anxiety think we have cancer. And then sometimes we actually do. And sometimes it makes the anxiety worse. Anxiety and cancer. I see a lot of learning opportunities here.

Today I’m introducing you to Courtney, who will share about her self-talk as she worked through some discomfort in her body, through her diagnosis, and shares about the cancer journey. This is episode TWO of TWO — This week Courtney shares advice for how to get the right support for yourself as a patient and how to support someone through their cancer journey–what do they really need?
The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.

Subject Resources

Courtney’s blog: You are Not Alone

American Cancer Society

Transcript

[00:00:00] Cassandra: This is the continuation of last week’s episode. Courtney is in the middle of sharing about her cancer journey. Last week, she shared about her diagnosis and how she started treatment this week. We’re getting into the details of her support system, what they did and how she leaned in to knowing herself, to make the most of her relationship

[00:00:39] Courtney: I had treatment monthly. So for that first week, right after treatment, That was usually my worst. So that was where I would sometimes get sick and throw up. They were able to, after a couple months increase my increase, the medicine that they gave me during treatment. And I’m at home medicine that I could take after to help lessen the nausea.

So I ended up only throwing up the first two or, you know, the first two treatments. They were, I was still very nauseous, but it never brought me to the point. They’re like, we don’t want you to get to the point where you actually throw up. We’ll try to manage your nausea as best as possible. So That was a big one.

For me, that fatigue was something that as the treatments went on, it compounded. So by, by treatment five, I was fatigued more than just the first week. You know, it led into week two. My last treatment, the fatigue lasted, , two, two and a half weeks and fatigue, the best way to describe fatigue.

When you’re, when you’re really sick, you have a bad cold, or you have the flu and that point where like it’s exhausting to take a shower or it’s exhausting to like heat up soup. That’s fatigue. Like. Comparison. And so that was scary for me because I’m so used to being independent and I was still working at the time doing during treatment.

So I would take a week off and then I would work the rest of the time from home or in the office. And they were really gracious with me. But you know, I would walk to my car and I would literally be just exhausted from it. And I would just have to talk myself down from that and go. Like you don’t need to freak out right now.

This is part of the process. This is, this is a result of the chemo therapy that’s in my body. I will gain back my strength and had to do a lot of self-talk. Cause the fatigue was scary. When you’re used to having energy.

[00:02:30] Cassandra: So, and I think along the lines of that, self-talk, you’ve talked about your support and you need a lot of support in this time from your doctor, but also from the people around you, you talked about bringing your mom and your husband to the first appointment.

What were some things that the people in your network or your community, the people right around you who are, who are always there? What did they do or how did they help or how did you have to ask for help? What did they do that surprised you? I just asked you like five

[00:02:57] Courtney: questions, slow those down. It’s okay.

So I have a great support group and was very thankful to be back in San Diego, which is where a majority of my friends and family and even church, community where, so. I had two days of treatment a month. So, and once again, every treatment is different. So I would go in for two days straight. The first day I’d go in and it’d be about a six hour six, five to six hour appointment.

And then the second day would be really short interview about an hour. These back-to-back. Yeah. So like Monday, Tuesday. So I go in on Monday for five, six hours, and then I, the medicine that they would give me would basically, I would basically sleep the rest of the day and then day two, I’d go in and they would just do one medication.

Not both, I believe day two was the Rituxan and. Then I would not see them again for another four weeks. So I had one of the things that my friends and family did was I would have someone come with me on to every appointment. So my husband went to the majority of them. My mom would go to some, and that was a really great way to invite people in because people want to help people, especially when they care so deeply for your life.

What can I do? And honestly, there’s. Not a lot they can do because it’s just so. So much what you’re going through. And so I just would try to think of things that I could include them on that. Like, yes, it was great to have them there. But it was in some ways more for them than it was for me. And that was okay.

So I would have someone different come every, every Monday for my longer appointment and you know, Chat with me, we play card games. It would depend on, on the treatment. But I usually got pretty groggy, so it was more just chill hanging out and it gave them an opportunity to see, you know, what treatment, what a treatment plan looks like.

So inviting people into, into your appointments is great. If you feel comfortable with it. And I would usually ask them to come a little bit later. So the first thing that they did. That they did from you as they would actually have to find a good vein. And that was the most stressful part for me. So I didn’t usually want someone there for that.

Cause it was, I felt the burden to have to host somebody and that’s not what they’re asking of me, but I felt that that sensitivity. So once again, learning, like what are, you know yourself well enough? And I wanted to have people come, but I would say, Hey, can you come, you know, an hour into. Into my appointment and they would come at that point when I felt settled and I was getting the, the medicine at that point.

So that’s one way, another way is

putting together a care package. I didn’t ask anyone to do this, but I got a ton of care packages along the way. And some great things. As silly as it is. My favorite item that I got from a care package was gum. And you’re thinking I’m like, get yourself your own gun, Courtney what’s why do you need someone to give it to you?

But it was something that another cancer patient, a former cancer patient gave me and I was like, cool, gum, thanks. And then the minute I started treatment, I was like, gum, this is amazing because you’re depending on the type of drug and treatment that you have. Your mouth tastes different. So it tastes, mine tasted more like irony than normal.

And I would also, when I was nauseous, gum was really refreshing for me. And yeah, so it helps in a number of ways. Yeah, it helps. And I would suggest getting for, for those of you that are the actual one, going through it, maybe pick some gum that is not your favorite gum, because as you go through it, you may never want to eat that gum, you know, again.

So if you always like spearmint, like maybe do I did a tropical gun, something that I would never normally eat, but it was really refreshing salivating. So gum was a big one. I got a ton of coloring books because there’s a lot of downtime and colorings, a very easy. Activity that you can do when you’re just waiting around.

Another one was like a teapot and tea and ginger chews gift cards to restaurants was really great because there were times. I do the majority of the cooking. So it was a little hard on my husband because I did not have any energy to cook and sometimes I didn’t want to eat and he needed to eat.

So gift cards are always great and it gives us the freedom to, you know, go and get it when we want to. And. For those that are essential oil levers, I also got some essential oils and really just a lot of things that, that are somewhat neutral. So I, I would suggest like staying away from like really heavy sense because depending on the type of treatment.

Sometimes smells are, you’re very sensitive to smells. So just trying to stay neutral in it. And then probably the last thing that was really special to me is I got some, some sweet blankets that people actually handmade for me that I could take with me to treatments. And so I would cuddle up because you’re usually pretty cold when you’re getting your treatments and you want your veins to be warm so that things pump quick.

And then I also got a kind of a shell wrap that I used, and that was really helpful because I ended up getting a port in my chest so that they could access and inject the medicine through my part, as opposed to through the veins in my arms or my hands. And so it’s nice to have something that you can kind of like take on and off very easily when you’re getting treatment.

So those are some special. Care packages. I feel like you just

[00:08:29] Cassandra: put together a care

[00:08:30] Courtney: package right there. Yeah, I did. So there’s some ideas for you guys. That’s a wonderful,

[00:08:34] Cassandra: well, so we have been talking about your cancer past tense and that’s because.

[00:08:41] Courtney: Are you cancer free? That’s a great question. So when I researched cancer-free a little bit ago, I learned that cancer-free technically means that you have been in remission for five years, meaning no science, no sign of cancer.

And so I am technically not cancer-free because it hasn’t been five years. But I am in remission and have been in remission for 14 months. So yeah. That is worth celebrating. So I have not had any signs of metabolic activity for 14 months since. And that was, I actually was in remission. At the end of month, two of my six month treatment and I was like, cool.

So are we, are we done with the treatment? Like I can just go back home and they’re like, no, you need to finish the treatment because it’ll help. That’s essentially, it’s going to also help keep it off and ensure that they get rid of any of those cells that might be lingering that are metabolic.

So, yes, so I was in remission fairly early on and and that was, that was probably one of the hardest emotions. Pieces of my journey because I was so excited and shared with everyone and like share, I shared my whole journey on social media so that people could follow along. And when I shared that I was in remission and people were like, that’s awesome.

That’s great. This is amazing. And then I noticed that the care and the check-in started to lessen. And I think that was because people think like remission, great. You’re done. You’re good. You’re moving on. And that doesn’t necessarily mean. You’re not out of the woods yet. And that was something that I had to learn, identify, and then communicate back to people.

So I did my best to say like, Hey guys, I’m in remission, super thankful, but like, I am not done with this fight yet. Like I’ve got another four treatments. And even then the healing process doesn’t start until it takes a while for the, for the medicine to actually leave your body for your, and then for your body to actually build back all of that.

Healthy cells that chemotherapy, although it’s great, you know, it’s basically attacking your body, the good and the bad cells. And so it takes time. So that was a big, a big takeaway from you was going. I’m not, I’m not out of the woods yet. I’m going to rejoice and be thankful, but this is an over how long was it

[00:10:57] Cassandra: until you felt like Courtney again?

Fatigued Courtney or nauseous Courtney

[00:11:03] Courtney: or so I ended the treatment in December of 2019. And so I’m coming up on my one-year mark of not having chemo, which is amazing. And to be honest, I’m just now starting to feel. Fairly normal. The, the medicine does where it does leave your body, around 30 to 60 days, at least for mine specifically, but then you still have a lot of residual things that come up.

There’s emotional turmoil that comes from it because of what you just went through. Very traumatic. It can be a very traumatic experience. You also have your physical body. That is like I said, trying to build back strength. And so it’s taking it’s. There was a time where I couldn’t even walk a mile. And I had to build back that strength.

There’s also I still had a lot of pain in my stomach afterward, which was, which was scary for me cause I was thinking, okay, the cancer’s back. All right, here we go again. But my stomach was sensitive because that’s where the majority of my, of my cancer was. And so that’s where the medicine that’s where the chemo was working its hardest.

And so that’s the area of greatest weakness. So I’m still trying to gain back my six pack abs in all of this that never existed in the first place, if we’re being honest. But yeah, it’s, I mean, my doctor said it’s takes six months to a year before you feel, you know, fairly back to normal and that’s going to be different depending on how long your treatment was and what type of medicine you had.

But for me specifically, I’m just now getting to the place where I’m like, oh yeah, I feel, I feel good. I don’t need a heating pad at night. I don’t need to break out my walk. I can there’s just so many external things that you don’t even realize until you’re starting to feel better.

That’s so good.

[00:12:52] Cassandra: The scans though, you still have to have scans because you still want to make sure that you are continuing to be in remission. And you’ve shared a little bit about the, the anxiety and the emotional stress that comes with that. Can you talk to listeners about that?

[00:13:09] Courtney: Yeah. So, like I mentioned, I’ve been struggling with anxiety really ever, ever since my dad passed from cancer.

And for me, anxiety

it really shows when I’m feeling that I’m not in control and. Some way, somehow over the years, I have convinced myself that I’m in control of the things in my life. And to some extent you are, you know, there’s things within your control. You can determine when you wake up in the morning or what you feel your body with, or, , there’s things that you can control, but there’s so much more out of our control.

And so I had to learn. How to be okay. Not being in control. And the worst, the biggest form of anxiety I experiences when my body is when I’m not in control of my body. So this was truly the worst case scenario that could’ve ever happened for me. This was my biggest nightmare. Having cancer and having to actively choose to do something to my body.

That’s going to make it feel really bad, but it’s also going to heal it in some ways.

[00:14:10] Cassandra: It’s a weird combination.

[00:14:12] Courtney: Very strange. And so I my anxiety flared big time because I wasn’t in control of my nausea. I couldn’t do anything about it. I couldn’t make it go away. There’s only so many things that were within my control and it felt very minimal.

So I have a relationship with God. And so that was a big piece for me was, was prayer and journaling. I would journal a ton and there were a lot of things. That through the process that, that God was gracious and shared with me to encourage me. And so with anxiety, anxiety is very forward focused.

So it’s always thinking about something that may never come to fruition. And so I had to, to really focus on staying present and not looking more than that. An hour ahead of my day or a day, you know, looking more than a day out because it was exhausting and scary because you know, when you’re told you have stage four, non-Hodgkin’s follicular lymphoma at 35 and you know, your dad’s history, you’re thinking, well, I am probably going to die and leave my husband by himself.

And you know, you go, when you have anxiety, you go to those worst case scenarios, you think that way. And so I had to, I had to step out of that and walk myself backwards and go, okay, what, what is something that I can control right now? I can control. Getting to the doctor’s appointment on time. And even then traffic.

So once again, not in control, but there are things that I would try to do that that, that kind of grounded me and helped me feel like there were things that I was able to control. And a big thing for me that I would encourage. For those that are, you know, walking through a cancer diagnosis or treatment is I did counseling twice a month and that was a saving grace for me because there were so many emotions, so many firsts first that you’re experiencing.

And as a person that struggles with anxiety. That is unknown. It is foreign. And there’s once again, so much that you cannot manage. And so that was a really great outlet for me. But you know, I ended up taking a medication to help with my anxiety and was able to, you know, wean off of that probably four or five months after treatment.

And I just had to tell myself and my counselor encouraged me and that was. Giving myself grace to be okay with taking medication for the anxiety for a temporary period of time. You know, I didn’t want to take it cause I was like, I don’t want to be, I don’t want to be stuck on this for the rest of my life.

And so just being okay with getting the help I need going to counseling medication, , any other things that I could to try and self care, it

almost sounds like the medicine was part of your control even. Do, did you feel that way that you were. Well, I can use the medicine to have this under control, or where did it

make you feel?

A little out of control? I did notice that the medicine helped me. And so that was, that was more of a comfort than it was a shame piece. And so I chose comfort and try to not deal with, you know, with shame because my body was going through so much and you know, our bodies are not designed to, to deal with that.

Level of, you know, attack on, on the cells, Courtney,

[00:17:31] Cassandra: you shared so much today and I’m so thankful for it because you’ve given us, you’ve truly painted the story of what happened. And I think the importance of having the relationships in your life and really knowing yourself, I think that it sounds like that was probably the.

Thing that helped you is being comfortable with who you are knowing anxiety’s part of your life. And that that’s something that you’re fighting through already, and it’s going to get more heightened knowing what kind of care you need and you didn’t necessarily have to have somebody with you at every Monday appointment, but having them the first appointment, right.

It’s the long one. But knowing that that’s going to strengthen your relationship with people, making that a priority in a time when. It was, it was necessary really. And I just think that’s so beautiful. So I’m thankful for you and for sharing your story. Is there anything else that you wanted to add?

[00:18:31] Courtney: There’s a couple of things that that were really helpful for me in and over the past year and a half. When you say I’m going to speak more specifically to those that are dealing with a cancer diagnosis or walking through. Treatment. It’s okay. To be selfish. It is okay to set boundaries and to communicate your expectations.

And I know that that’s difficult sometimes because you’re thinking, well, I don’t even know what to communicate, cause I’ve never done this before. I’ve never experienced this. But to some extent, You will learn along the way and it’s okay to communicate as you learn it. So it’s not like you have to blanket statement, tell everyone everything you need upfront and you never get to say it again.

So I would constantly go back to people and reinforce or communicate new things that I needed. And so a few examples of that was when I found out that I. Had stage four, I, I specifically did not share stage four with people publicly. I shared it with a small number of people and I, I left it there because I didn’t think that it was necessary in my narrative to share the stage.

At the end of the day I have cancer. You’re going to fight my fight for my life. And I also learned that I’m somewhat of a people pleaser, so I’m very sensitive to other people’s opinions of me. And I know that chemotherapy, some people are for it, and some people are very much against it.

Some people prefer the natural homeopathic approach. And I am all for that, but I was doing. God, like I was being obedient to what I felt God was telling me to do. And I had to be true to stay in that course. And for me, what was, what brought me the most peace and, and that doesn’t mean that That that’s what the next person should be doing.

So I can only speak to mine, but I learned early on. And when I announced to people that I was that I had cancer and I was starting chemotherapy, I specifically said if you have if you have any records, if you have any recommendations or opinions on my treatment plan yeah. Please contact my husband and he will share with me as he feels led.

I did not want a single person telling me have you thought about doing this or you should be doing that. That was not helpful for me at the time. And I know that people’s intentions are great. They’re going, Hey, I’ve seen this work for another person, but once again, I had to. Focus on what I felt I needed to do.

And, and I could always change my mind. You know, I could’ve done chemotherapy for two months and said, heck no, I’m not doing this anymore. I’m going to go to this approach or I’m going to do this retreat, or I’m going to take this medication. And so for those of you that are going through it, it’s okay to put some boundaries in place and to politely tell people.

Thank you. But no, thank you. And I had to do that with some people along the way and. And it was to protect the relationship because I knew that their heart was in the right place, but I was not in a place to receive that information. So that was a big one for me. And then gosh, the other, the other like big takeaway for me is one that I’m not in control.

But to share, to bring people along in the journey with you, because. There were so many people along the way that, you know, once again, like I’ve never experienced cancer before, I didn’t know what to expect. And so I really tried to educate people along the way and just share my experience. And I’ve had so many people tell me that by sharing, it helps them to love someone else and they knew that was going through it.

And so I think there’s so much power in sharing, whatever that looks like for you. Let people in and. Share the journey because it’s very hard and it can be very isolating and by sharing it, it helps cut down the isolation where when you’re going through something like nobody else could relate to me.

But I found a couple people that had experienced treatment recently and I would, they were like on as a speed dial, still exists. Everyone is on speed dial, but I would, I had them there with the first one. I would text them, I would say, Hey. I need your help. I’m feeling really discouraged by this. How did you handle it?

And that person will respond back to me or we would get on the phone and talk. And so finding someone that’s gone before you and has walked, it doesn’t have to be the same form of cancer. It doesn’t have to be, you know, the most recent person that you’ve you’ve encountered, but find someone That has has walked that journey because it makes you not feel very, not feel as alone and can bring so much comfort.

There’s so many things that I learned from. The person that I reached out to that moved me quicker along in the healing process, because she taught me what took her a long time to learn. And I was able to quickly, you know, move past grieving or move past hurt or sadness, you know, some of the emotions that come with it along the way.

So those are some big, big takeaways for me. They really

are. It could be different for different people. So there’s no, it’s not like if you’re listening to this and you’re not the one going through it, you’re trying to help a friend. Feel free to share the episode, but for you to go to them and be like, well, I heard from Courtney and this is what she said.

That’s not going to help them. That’s not, they’re not, you can’t push somebody through this process. They really have to want to, like, you wanted to glean from a friend, you were ready to do that. Cancer’s really about meeting somebody where they are.

Yup. It very much is an every everyone’s going to look different.

So what’s helpful for me might look different for the next person. But, you know, as someone, as a, as a friend that, or a family member that you’re walking through, someone that you love, that’s going through cancer physically just being there for them and. It just goes such a long way. There were times when I would just ask someone to come over and sit with me because I was just so sad and overwhelmed and I knew that being alone, wasn’t going to be helpful for me.

But that also required me to be vulnerable. It required me to show weakness in front of this person. And so, and that’s, that may not be where you’re at and that’s okay. But you know, for those that are walking alongside someone, you know, just be consistent with them. And yeah. Don’t be offended if they, if they aren’t as responsive as they normally are, because they’re going through a battle, you know, it really is a battle.

And there were, yeah, there were times when I would just, you know, want to shut people out but be consistent for that person. And, if there ever comes a point where you feel like they’re not they’re not taking care of themselves you know, Keep caring for them. And being that consistent person and they will, they will, they will reach out when they’re ready.

[00:25:43] Cassandra: That’s beautiful, Courtney. Thank you. Thank you so much for meeting with us today and for sharing your personal story and just giving so much advice to those listening. I’m thankful for you and for your time. Thank you see when Brittany told me about her cancer journey, one thing was very clear to me. I even mentioned it many times because it’s so important.

Courtney knows who she is, not in a stuck unteachable way, but in a way that allowed her to create a safe space for herself. If I can encourage you in anything, it will always be to need and know yourself and others. And Courtney really nails that in a way that you. As a listener. Thank you for making Courtney needed a note.

The best way to let me know you enjoy this episode is to leave a review for more information about this episode or to read Courtney’s blog, click the link in the show notes until you need me next time. Bye.

What Happens When You Actually Have Anxiety And Cancer?

Anxiety and Cancer

Sometimes those of us with anxiety think we have cancer. And then sometimes we actually do. And sometimes it makes the anxiety worse. Anxiety and cancer. I see a lot of learning opportunities here.

Today I’m introducing you to Courtney, who will share about her self-talk as she worked through some discomfort in her body, through her diagnosis, and shares about the cancer journey. This is episode ONE of TWO — Next week Courtney will give advice for how to get the right support for yourself as a patient and how to support someone through their cancer journey–what do they really need?
The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.

Subject Resources

Courtney’s blog

American Cancer Society

Transcript

Cassandra: [00:00:00] Hey friend, it’s Cassandra, and this is needed and known the podcast where we discover how to transform average moments into a great life by learning, growing, and becoming better humans together. I interview amazing people who have improved their communication relationships and perspectives in unique cancer.

The dread that word alone brings, but why, what does it mean? Whether you or someone you love has cancer or like me, you’re just wished someone would spell it out on this episode. And the next I’m introducing you to Courtney. What I love so much about Courtney she’s self-aware and she shares in detail how she responded to her body emotional needs and about how cancer impacted her anxiety.

And she tells us the details about her cancer experience and the next week’s episode. She’ll continue her story and share more about her support system.

Hey Courtney,

Courtney: [00:00:57] Hey, Cassandra.

Cassandra: [00:00:58] Thank you so much for joining us today. I and I’ve been following your stories since the beginning, and I’ve known you since before that.

And so I’m so thankful to you for sharing this. If anybody has read the name to this episode, then they’ll know you had cancer. What were there any signs ahead of time that this was happening?

There were signs. I don’t know if I recognize the signs and I will say that. Form of cancer is going to look a little different when it comes to science.

So I can only speak to mine. But with that, with that said, I experienced Tightness in my stomach, which I was secretly hoping was just that I was getting really great six pack apps. And I, I learned later on that, that’s not what that was, but I got tightness in my stomach. And so when I would ever work out and do certain moves where I’m laying on my stomach, maybe it’s a Cobra position or a few other ones.

I would notice that it was uncomfortable. So it was really just discovered. And that lasted for probably eight or nine months. I didn’t think much of it. I just assumed. Okay, well, you know, there’s just some sensitivity there. Then I experienced back pain and I thought that was just due to, you know, working, working out a little too hard.

So I went to physical therapy and really, so it was like back pain, stomach pain, and. Other than that, I didn’t have a ton of, of symptoms at the time. But I decided to go to the doctor just to figure out what was going on with my stomach. I was feeling kind of in my more in my esophagus area too.

When I would have increased stress, I noticed more sensitivity. So I was curious if there was, you know, a hernia or something, very simple going on and come to find out, you know, it ended up being cancer. It was pretty minimal. I mean, there was pain, there was discomfort, but it wasn’t excruciating.

Gotcha. It sounds like, so you said tightness. So when I think of that, I literally thought of anxiety off the bat. So then that makes every listener, I would assume who has anxiety is now like, oh my gosh, what is happening to my body? And so would, does everybody need to run out and get tested for cancer or,

Courtney: [00:03:11] yeah, don’t recommend that I have struggled with anxiety over the years, and this did feel different than that to me.

But with, with, as a person who, who tends to be a little bit more anxious and very in tune with my body, I definitely knew something was wrong, but I really. Trying not to go the route of like, oh, well it must be cancer. Which is very easy for my type of personality to do, to go to worst case scenario.

But yeah, I would say if you’re, if you’re continuously experiencing some discomfort, it never hurts to go to your primary doctor. And that’s exactly what I did. So that was kind of what started the testing for me.

Cassandra: [00:03:48] So how did that go? So you go see the doctor, what kind of tests do you do?

Courtney: [00:03:54] So for her, she said it could have been a hernia or a pulled muscle in my abdomen.

So she said, why don’t we just roll things out and get you a ultrasound? And so I went and did an ultrasound, which I was cracking up. Cause I was like, man, I was really thinking the first time I do an ultrasound will be because I’m pregnant and it’s exciting. And here I am looking for something that’s wrong.

So definitely. A little twist different than what I was hoping for. So I did an ultrasound that came back and it showed that there were some abnormalities. And so my doctor said, “All right, well, let’s get you a abdominal CT cat scan.” So I went and got that. And then that came back and they noticed some swollen lymph nodes.

And at that point that’s really when the concern started for me. Of course I was nervous up until that point, but I was kind of trying to rule out anything bad because that doesn’t lead me anywhere. Positive. So once that one came back, she said, there’s swollen lymph nodes. We’re going to do another CT.

We’re going to go do it a chest CT. So the way the CT works is you only, they only take a portion of your body. It’s not a full scan. And so they needed to do a scan of my upper body to see if the small lymph nodes continued. And so that was the first indicator for me that something might be wrong. Cause she said, if that comes back and it ends up being.

More swollen lymph nodes than we’re going to need to biopsy. And when I heard the word biopsy, I was like, oh no, I know what this means. I remember exactly where I was when I got the phone call. And so I was like, okay, I’m gonna take it one step at a time. So I got my abdominal, I had my abdominal, I got my chest.

And then they came back and said, yup, you have more swollen lymph nodes. And at that point I started researching. I was like, okay, what is small lymph nodes? What type of cancer could this be? And ended up finding out that it could be lymphoma. And that was the primary one that I, that I noticed when I was researching.

And then they, they did the that second CT and then they’re like, okay, now we need to biopsy. So then I went and had a biopsy done and that took about a week before I got the results back. And that’s when it was. It was conclusive that you have you ha you know, that I had cancer. And what type

Cassandra: [00:06:07] of cancer did you have?

Courtney: [00:06:09] So when the doctor, the doctor called me, cause I was living at a state and I was trying to deal with some logistics on things. She called me. And she said, you have non-Hodgkin’s follicular lymphoma. And I was like non wet. That’s a really big, those are a lot of big words. I’ve never heard of this before.

Lymphoma is essentially what I have, but there’s Hodgkin’s lymphoma and non-Hodgkin’s so mine was non-Hodgkin’s follicular lymphoma. And at the time they weren’t able to categorize. The stage of cancer. But she did say I had a lower, a lower grade. So meaning that it was slower growing form of cancer, which is a good sign, still cancer, nonetheless.

But so then I had to get additional testing, so I had to get. A pet scan, blood work and a bone marrow biopsy. And at that point I met with the oncologist and found out it was stage four cancer, which when I hear stage four, I instantly think worst case scenario terminal. And so. It was a little bit of a shock, you know, when I got that news.

And I can explain a little bit more as to there’s different staging to cancers. And so I can only speak to lymphoma the non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. If you stage four means that it’s it’s above and below your, your waistline. And because. I had swollen lymph nodes in my groin area and my abdomen and my armpit and my chest.

It was in multiple areas. And so that’s what categorized it as a stage four. Thankfully my form of cancer is. It’s not curable, but it is treatable. And so that was kind of my saving grace, as I was going into this process,

Cassandra: [00:07:53] things you don’t know until you get cancer. Am I right? Like, you know, that they’re stage 1, 2, 3, and four, and you know, the forest, not the goodest and one is okay.

And like, but you don’t know what any of those things mean. And so I really appreciate you spelling that out for us. What does that mean? I don’t know what stage four means. All I know is that’s not good. And how is she still here? So that, and it also gives hope to people who are listening, who are like, this just happened to exactly, to me.

How do I.

Courtney: [00:08:21] Yeah, stage four is definitely a you know a punch in the stomach when you hear it. Just given, you know, I have a lot of people in my life that have battled cancer in the past. Those very close to me and my dad being one of them. And my dad unfortunately had a more aggressive form of cancer.

He had a soft geo cancer and did treatment and surgery. Unfortunately his metastasized and, you know, resulted in him passing from cancer. So I, you know, I, when I heard stage four, it was, it was something that I had to really Really focused on the fact that that was my dad’s story and that my stories, my story can look different.

That just because we both had stage four does not mean that my, the end of my story is going to result in what his was. And that’s, that’s probably one of my biggest lessons learned was not to compare. My journey with anybody else’s, every diagnosis is different. Every treatment’s different side-effects are different.

So, you know, for those of you listening, I think what’s key to remember is yes, you can glean and you can learn from others through the process, but also your story is yours and trying not to compare and being like, well there, you know, this ended poorly for them or they had a terrible experience. You have to walk through your through your journey in that

Cassandra: [00:09:47] That’s really beautiful Courtney, and that’s something that whatever you’re battling, whatever you’re going through, like, it’s a really good reminder.

How do you get an oncologist? We’ve gone really deep and we’re going to go rural shallow, but yeah. I’m curious in more of the logistical side for this is how do you pick an oncologist or did you just happen to get lucky?

Courtney: [00:10:09] Yeah, mine was a little unique because we were moving. So we’re in San Diego, but we were living in Michigan at the time. So I was dealing with my primary, who was out here and we were moving back to California. So it was, it was a little challenging. But my doctor, my primary, doctor’s the one that really helped us walk through each step.

And so, and I would just ask a lot of questions and say, okay, so who’s calling me next and who am I waiting to hear from? And a lot of times, I was really waiting for them to call, to make appointments. And so that was helpful for me because I wasn’t having to seek out a lot.

Scheduling that they were, they would say, Hey, we’re going to process this. And someone from radiology will call you or someone from oncology we’ll reach out to you and schedule it. So I didn’t, I didn’t pick my oncologist. There was I think two or three at the, at sharp near our house. And so we got assigned an oncologist and And that was kind of the, the step.

I think it depends on the type of cancer you have. There are certain, I know people that have a certain type of cancer and they, they seek out someone that really specializes in that non-Hodgkin’s follicular lymphoma is not a rare cancer. It’s fairly treatable and there’s a decent survival rate.

And so I wasn’t focused as much. And really at the time there’s so much coming at you that it, it can be overwhelming in terms of making decisions. So I’ve seen it done a number of ways with, with other people that they’ve gone and they want to, they want to meet with the best of the best, and that, that works great for them.

I didn’t have that, that urgency or. Like a conviction to have to go and research a bunch of different doctors. I had going into it really been praying about. What I would do when it comes to treatment, because I saw my dad go through chemo and radiation and I saw how hard it was on him.

And I told myself, I would never, if I ever got cancer, I would never do that. And here we are, you know, 10 years after my dad. I’m in the same in the same spot and trying to make these decisions. So I really spent some time personally praying about it and go and asking God, if I’m, if I do treatment, what treatment should I be doing?

And I felt really peaceful about chemotherapy. And so when I met with the oncologist and I will answer your question of what to look for, but when I met with him, He told me that the best form of treatment was going to be chemotherapy. And so that put me at ease to know that, okay, I was on the right path.

And and looking back, some things that I would suggest as if you’re someone that fi found out that you are diagnosed with cancer. Some things that I would look for with the doctor is. You have to know your personality types. So for some people they prefer like giving the facts, just tell it to me straight.

Some people prefer a softer approach and want more of a relational aspect or empathy. And what I learned was I, I, if I were to ever have to go that route again I would probably find a different doctor because my doctor was a little bit more even keel and. Not very empathetic. And, that was challenging for me.

I’m about halfway through, I thought about switching doctors, but I wanted to just finish my treatment that way. So I would say, look for someone that you knowing your personality, what’s gonna, what’s gonna fit best for you. Also someone that you feel comfortable asking questions around. If you, if you don’t feel like you can ask them questions, then you need to find somebody else because there’s going to be a lot along the way that you.

You need to have those open conversations. Someone that’s accessible is, is also important and what’s tricky is you don’t know that going into it. So you’re not going to know how accessible they are until you’re a couple appointments in, and you’re trying to, you know, trying to find some time if you’re, if you’re an existing treatment, if you’re an existing patient, that’s getting treatment, they usually push you to the top of the of the chain. So for me right now, being on the other side of it I’ve noticed a lower, you know, response time on things. And so those are probably the primary things that I would look for with the doctor. I didn’t do a second opinion. Maybe, you know, maybe I should have, but I felt pretty peaceful about the treatment plan.

And I really liked the facility and I, there was just a lot of things that for me, made sense to continue going down that path.

Cassandra: [00:14:34] What I hear you saying though, is that if you have any concerns about your doctor or you’re not comfortable, it’s really important to, to get that second opinion. It sounds like you didn’t need the second opinion because you were comfortable and.

I also loved that you talked on knowing yourself and knowing your personality. And if you don’t feel like, you know, how you like receiving information, the people near, you know, the people near, you know, how you respond to bad dues or how, who you’re most comfortable around. And that’s not necessarily what matches you because your doctor.

Sounds like, it would be okay for me, but I do need, I need a little bit of empathy. I’m a very empathetic person, but I cannot work with very empathetic people because I’m like, yeah, it’s too much feelings in here.

Courtney: [00:15:19] There’s too. There’s too much going on. Yeah.

Cassandra: [00:15:21] Much factual is like I need a little bit of love.

I need a little bit of TLC.

Courtney: [00:15:28] What’s funny is when we went to meet him. I went with my husband and my mom. And so when went to my doctor came in. So the first time you met him, he introduced himself and said, hi to my mom and said, how did my husband, and then turned to me and introduced himself to me. And then he said, oh, is this your mom and your dad?

And I should have known then that we should have probably just found a new oncologist because my husband goes, I’m her husband and. He was like, oh, I’m so sorry

Cassandra: [00:15:56] for the record. Courtney’s husband is not older. Like there’s not a less significant aid.

Courtney: [00:16:02] There’s a four, there’s a four year gap

Cassandra: [00:16:04] and he doesn’t look older.

Courtney: [00:16:05] No, he’s got a little more salt and pepper than the average, maybe 40 year olds. But yeah, no way. Was he 25 years older in my mom’s age. And so we had a good laugh, but later on in the appointment, he kept trying to. To fix it and say, well, you know, your mom just looks so young and it’s like, we just stop, stop you don’t, you know, you don’t need to go there.

Looking back, we were like, man, we should’ve known right from the get-go, you know, you got it, got to look for someone different. But you know, as, as the treatments went on, I did have to meet with a couple of their doctors throughout when he was on vacation or wasn’t available. And that was also another sign for me of like, wow, I really felt more comfortable with this person than I did that person.

So like I said, I carried out my treatment plan, but. You know, if I were to need more care in the future, I would look elsewhere. So I would just encourage those of you. Don’t this is such a crucial part. Of the process and you want to feel supported and heard and whatever it is that you’re needing.

So don’t settle. This is really important.

Cassandra: [00:17:09] What happened to your body during treatment,

Courtney: [00:17:11] What didn’t happen to my body during treatment. Every form of medicine will have different side effects. So I was grateful that my medication. And I’ll probably butcher how to pronounce them, but I had Benda bendamustine or bendamustine and Rituxan.

And so for any of you listening, if, you can relate to those, to those forms of drugs My side effects did not include hair loss. So I was very fortunate as a female, not to have to go that route. But I did experience fatigue and loss of appetite and nausea and anxiety and depression.

And I would say the anxiety and depression is something that I’ve dealt with over the years aside from cancer. So I think it really just was heightened during the process. But I do think that the medicine problem. Kicked that up a notch.

Cassandra: [00:18:02] The fact is Courtney has way more to share than we shared with you today.

Today, we focused on how Courtney got diagnosed and took you through the beginning stages of her treatment. Next week, we’ll finish up her treatment and she will give you some awesome tips on self care and for your support system, as well as create an awesome care basket. As always, you can find more information at neededandknown.com or in the show notes.

Thank you for helping Courtney to feel needed and known until you need me next time. Bye.

How to Make Friends as an Adult

Where is the step-by-step guide to make friends as a grown-up?

You’ve moved to a new city and want to make friends.

Maybe all of your friends are in a different stage of life.

Or maybe you just need friends!

Tiffany Alysa is truly an expert in building community. Working for a job that was moving her every two years, she managed to hack the fountain of friendship and she is sharing all in today’s episode.

Interview Resources and Notes

For the transcript and notes, please visit NeededAndKnown.com
TiffanyAlysa.com
TiffanyAlysa on Instagram
GalsThatBruch.com
Bread and Wine by Shaun Niequist

Transcript

Cassandra: [00:00:00] Hey friend, it’s Cassandra, and this is needed and known the podcast where we discover how to transform average moments into a great life by learning, growing, and becoming better humans together. I interview amazing people. Who’ve improved their communication relationships and perspectives and unique.

This week, I’m introducing you to my friend, Tiffany. Tiffany is joining us from gals that brunch a chapter based organization, driven by building community. She will talk about three key things. You need to make friends as an adult and she’ll share the inspiration that spurs her on. Hey, Tiffany. Welcome to needed to known.

Tiffany: [00:00:37] Hey, thank you so much, Cassandra, for having me I’m so excited to be here.

Cassandra: [00:00:41] What is Gals That Brunch?

Tiffany: [00:00:44] Yeah, absolutely. So Gals That Brunch is a community movement that is in 120 cities around the world. Basically we’re out there finding the best brunch spots and destinations, but our heartbeats for community and bringing women together to walk in more freedom into empower them.

So that they can connect with others, make friends and yeah, we’re just, we’re building community while enjoying the best meal of the day, which is what I like to consider brunch.

Cassandra: [00:01:15] So how did gals that brunch start? Cause it wasn’t just, this is something that you yourself started, correct? Or were there other people involved?

Tiffany: [00:01:22] I did start Gals That Brunch. I was moving all around the country for my job. As a young professional. I had moved to Denver for five years. And I put myself out there over and over and over again, I joined softball teams. I went to young, professional, happy hours. I got involved with local faith communities and still felt like at the end of the day, like why can’t I find my tribe?

And I, it wasn’t for the lack of not putting myself out there. And I like to call myself the famous ambivert. I tried. It was a lot of work and it probably took me close to two years to finally feel like I could say that I had that sense of community. I had a great group of friends. Then I found out my work was trans planting me to a different state.

And I was like, oh my gosh, I can not believe I’m going to put myself through this process again. And so what I did is before I even moved, I went to some of the local foods. Groups in Virginia Beach and said, Hey, I’m a 27 young professional moving to the area and wanted to see if anyone would be down to go get some brunch and a couple people bonded.

And I was like, okay, like, all right. You know, so I went to the restaurant and I was like, I’m going to end up being the only person here. I went like three hours. It was to reserve a table. And before I knew it over 20 women showed up and it was like one of the most beautiful experiences. People were laughing and crying around the table.

And I was like, what is happening? You know, what’s going on? And it just shows me like time and time again, regardless of the days, I don’t feel like doing it or what, not how much we need connection and how much we need that. In-person synergy. Yeah. We’re in this social media driven world where everyone feels more connected than ever.

I might not see my high school best friend for 20 years, but I know she has a baby. I know she has a husband or whatever the case may be. But then yet this generation is struggling with loneliness at an all time high and how important it is to bring people together. So we grew organically by word of mouth for the first year.

The, the kind of the. Steak was, Hey, you know, invite someone to the table with you. And that’s what we did. And then one of the girls was moving away to North Carolina and she was like, Tiffany, what am I going to do without girls at brunch? And we were like, laughing, you could start a sister chapter.

And at that point, Virginia Beach had grown to about 1200 women.

Cassandra: [00:03:48] Oh my gosh! How do you book brunch for 1200 women?

Tiffany: [00:03:52] You know, we never got to, but we basically ended up doing. Events a month throughout different parts of Virginia Beach to meet. Room for as many women as we could fit into the restaurant, which was like anywhere from like 25 to 50 people at a time.

And then started doing happy hours and things like that, just to like try and make room for as many people as we could. So she moved to North Carolina. At that point I found out I was moving back to San Diego. We started the Gals That Brunch, Instagram account. And within the first couple of months, we had four different people reach out to us.

Which one of them was you in Oklahoma! You were like part of our first five chapters of Gals That Brunch would just like, kind of just like one of them. Astounding things to me and be bouldering things for me now, six years later of doing Gals That Brunch, and you were one of the first five people that reached out about setting a chapter.

And as you know, like it was kind of like, we never thought about it. You know, we weren’t built necessarily to think through like what that was gonna look like, but we just took a chance on him, you know, as people reach out to start chapters and now we’re in 120 cities around the world. That’s crazy to think about.

Cassandra: [00:05:08] That’s so crazy. Wow. So like you went from 20 women to now you’re in 120 cities. Do you know, about how many women are part of Gals That Brunch

Tiffany: [00:05:20] It’s challenging because since we’ve grandfathered a lot of community groups and so every, so we have different community groups that use different outlets, but from what I’ve been able to put together so far, our community makes up about a hundred and a hundred thousand plus women give or take

Cassandra: [00:05:39] If anybody’s listening and they’re like, well, who goes to this group?

It is literally. The requirement is you like brunch. You don’t have to love brunch. You don’t have to be a brunch fanatic. You can think that happy hour is superior. That’s the beautiful thing about brunch, right? You can have your own eggs or you can have your sandwich, or you can have a steak, you’ve got any of the meals.

Tiffany: [00:06:00] You have a lot of options.

Cassandra: [00:06:02] You can have an adult beverage, or you can have water. There is anything you want dessert. No dessert. Doesn’t matter. It’s all on the table. Gals. The French is truly a place to be needed and known. And for someone who’s maybe moving to a new area or trying to find grownup friends Gals that brunch is a fountain of people waiting to meet what are three to five things that you would say make help adults, make friends.

Tiffany: [00:06:29] Yeah, it’s so interesting because I never imagined in my entire life that at 20 something years old, I would Google. How does an adult make friends? I had no idea that that would ever be something. And I, it just made me realize how much we have these built-in systems and networks. As you grow up through school, through businesses, first-time jobs, whatever the case may be, you know, naturally a lot of those systems.

I built in networks of friends, family members and things like that. But when you’re moved out of those environments into a new city, like I was like, you were where you plopped down and you’re like, okay, great. I have to build community. And what does that even mean? And whatnot, there’s, you know, there’s a number of things that you can be doing and what that looks like.

And it definitely takes some heavy lifting at first. But you know, the first tip that I would have for people is To show up authentically and genuinely as yourself and really be confident in your authenticity of who you are and what you bring to the table. One of my favorite things that I say about Gals That Brunch, because I think sometimes people struggle with like, well, what about friends?

The only new person, or what does that look like? Like for me, it’s knowing like you’re inherently worthy to be seen, known and heard. And so you. Rightfully have a place at the table because we have an opportunity to get to know the gifts that you are and the gifts that you carry. And that’s like something like I’m super duper passionate about.

And I think so many times we underestimate ourselves and what that looks like. And we were talking a little bit earlier about how some times it’s like awkward, but if we just knew kind of like had a little bit more confidence. In who we were created to be. I think there’s nothing more powerful than that.

So spend some time, some time with yourself, you know, get really comfortable and confident and what that looks like. And I don’t mean rehearsed and, you know, getting ready to be like, this is who I am, things like that. Just again, like, no. You’re worthy to be seen, known and heard. I think the second step is you have to look at what local tools that you have and resources that you have to use.

So when I moved to Virginia Beach, I looked up Facebook groups. Cause I wasn’t sure like what else exists in the area. And so the reason why gal brunch is a little bit unique is because every single city. Different with how, in terms of how their community communicates. And even if there’s a meetup available there or whatever the case may be.

So so some cities leverage a meetup account. Some people don’t, you know, some people use Instagram or some people use Facebook or things like that. So kind of figuring out and exploring some of the local tools that you have available to you. And I always say like, Pick something you love or pick something that you’ve never tried before and that you’ve wanted to do like maybe a local painting class, something along those

Cassandra: [00:09:24] –photography, telescopes or whatever–

Tiffany: [00:09:27] yeah, exactly. Something like that. I think It’s definitely really important. I think the other tip that I I would have is going on Instagram, looking up like local hashtags and things like that, like W wherever you live, input your city and then whatever secondary you in you, like be looking for looking up for like local events and what that looks like.

Be really comfortable in spending some time with yourself, as I mentioned, kind of the first one, but don’t be afraid to try new things. Like for me, I went to the dog park with my dog and like, Connected with people, but I think theirs would just kind of be the first couple that I would think about when someone is looking or seeking to find new friends

Cassandra: [00:10:18] it’s a great core.

Cause it’s who are you? I think that’s, why. I would hazard to say that you went through an awkward phase. I know I did. I call it the first, most of my life. , and the biggest difference between then and now is just like you say, being confident, like I’m a little nerdy. I asked dorky questions.

I say the wrong thing sometimes. And rather than like, letting that shut me down and like, make me fearful of saying anything. Except that part of myself and try to try to be better, right. Try not to put my foot in my mouth all the time. But like, it’s okay to be my thing. Even on our neighbor, we have a relatively new neighborhood and I’m known for being like, hi, how are you?

Where do you live? Those are my introduction questions. I would like to know your name and your address, and so that might be off putting to people and, and that’s okay. I accept that. It’s a weird thing to say. I want to know where you live. I want to know where in our community you are

Tiffany: [00:11:12] I can look out for you.

And yes, which house are you? I think you bring up a great point too, because that would be my third point is that sometimes out of your greatest pain comes your greatest gifting. And I talk about that a lot. So sometimes like when we’re feeling lonely or we’re feeling excluded or things like that, we have opportunities to extend that.

So you’re new to a neighborhood. You become the welcome wagon.

Cassandra: [00:11:38] That’s what we’ve done. You’re not surprised I can tell you’re not superior. Sounds like something,

I love that. And then once you know who you are, it makes that makes it easier to go out to, you know, your local farmer’s market or what I say, local farmer’s market. And then thinking of like the Dallas farmer’s market, which is like huge, but like even in little Italy in San Diego, like any of these. You know, city farmer’s markets if you are scared to be by yourself, that most of that I would say is rooted in knowing yourself.

So I definitely think that those go together. Those are great suggestions. Thank you. Are there any resources or anything that you’ve seen that have really any books that you’ve read, anything that have really encouraged you or that you suggest to people that encourage them to get into community?

Tiffany: [00:12:29] Oh, my gosh.

Yes. So it’s literally the last page of bread and wine by Shauna and I inquests and I actually send it to every person that becomes a city leader. And it’s just one of the most beautiful pages. I literally weep every time I read it. But it talks about. Throwing open your doors and inviting people that you love into the mess and that how often we wait to invite people over until our houses are clean or till our life is put together or whatever the case may be.

But it just literally like throw up in your doors and invite people into your mess, like invite people into your tears, invite people into your laughter. And it talks about like, really beautiful of like, you know, how Roman garlic is like, there are some garlic cloves on the stove, like, and just like bring people into that, like hardiness and it talks about, you know, On one hand, like you have a friend that might be going through one of the happiest moments of their life, and then you have, on the other side, you have a friend that’s walking through a miscarriage and that you can hold space for both.

And that life doesn’t have to be about like the butterflies and rainbows. It just has to be about doing life together and locking arms together. And it doesn’t have to be about the anti stances or the are you for, or are you against, or what that looks like, but just like understanding. Well, first and foremost, like we’re human and that’s what we get to connect in.

And that’s the great equalizer is humanity. And that how a great meal is just like the most like simple piece of nourishment that literally every single human being needs in the world. And it’s like, that’s all you have to do is like offer people nourishment because that’s like first and foremost, like we can’t survive without that.

And then when you bring in like the connection pieces to it and. Not the textable soundbites anymore. And you just continued to invite people in it. It’s really pretty in the, the book is like full of like recipes she’s like created with her friends and things like that. But like literally that book, I would say how sh like that last two pages has like so clearly defined, like what my heart beats for and why I do what I do, because I, I just think that there’s like, it breaks my heart.

To see like a world that’s like hurting and feeling like, well, if you don’t believe this, or you don’t believe that, or things like that, but it’s like, we don’t create spaces to allow people from different worldviews and perspectives to come together. And literally, like, we’re not going to talk about that.

We’re just going to brunch. We’re just going to share a meal together. And then all of a sudden it’s like your shoulders job, you breathe a little bit deeper. And it’s like, oh yeah, you’re human. You know, like, and we can just remember that. And I think that’s like, where. World peace will happen. If we go share a meal with someone

Cassandra: [00:15:25] relationship therapy, that is what you just described is what they talk about, which is called creating a safe space.

And that’s really what you do in Gallup wrenches. You create a safe space of like everybody is accepted here. This space is not intended for your platform and your anti stance and your whatever it is that you’re, you’re trying to do. Yes. We’re just all people who really enjoy brunch. So. And who want to build community?

I mean, that’s just so beautiful. I love how you’re like, this is one page and then it was like all of these different things. So now of course we’re going to have to, the link will be in the show notes because that’s too good.

As an expert in. Building community. I know people reach out to you all the time. So if our listeners want to reach out to you, where can they find you?

Tiffany: [00:16:19] Absolutely. So you can go to my personal Instagram, which is TiffanyAlysa or you can go to my website, which is www.tiffanyalysa.com. Again, a L Y. A or you can go over to the Gals That Brunch. If you want to find out any information about gas at brunch or local Gals That Brunch chapter.

Cassandra: [00:16:43] That’s fantastic. We’ll have all of those links in the show notes. And I also know Tiffany has a mentorship pro program coming up in the next few months. So if you want to know more about that, I would get on the list now and not wait. Thank you so much for coming, Tiffany. I appreciate you. And we will talk again soon.

Tiffany: [00:17:02] Thank you so much. So I appreciate you.

Cassandra: [00:17:05] You know that all three of Tiffany’s points will be in the show notes, but I’m going to repeat them now because they are too good for you to forget. Number one, know yourself, make sure that you are comfortable with yourself and know that you are worthy to be seen, known and heard to look at the local tools.

When I moved to Oklahoma, I did not want to use. But that’s what everybody was using. So I had to adapt. And the third one is to remember that out of your greatest pain comes your greatest giftings. If there is something that you have struggled to get good at, like me with my awkwardness, I have a Ty tolerance for awkward people.

Now, if you want to connect with Tiffany via her website, or if you want the link to that book, she mentioned they will [email protected] slash podcast. Thank you for helping Tiffany to feel needed and known until you need me next time. Bye!

How to Help Your Family Go to Sleep More Calmly

Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify Listen on Stitcher Listen on iHeartRadio Listen on Amazon Music Listen on Overcast

Written by podcast guest: Tammy Hawkins

“If you have trouble getting your children to fall asleep, I can relate.

As a mom of two kids who struggled often with night terrors, anxiety, and typical bedtime fears, I know exactly how tired and frustrated you may be. And your kids! They are looking to you for help.

If you’re an exhausted parent, desperate for a more peaceful bedtime routine, this book will help you and your child release fear and negative thoughts together.

It’s my passionate goal that this method be the creative catalyst for many peaceful nights of sleep in your home, and the beginning of a better relationship with that child who is trusting you to help make them feel safe and calm as they drift off to sleep.

Turn bedtime, or anytime, into dream time with the Dream Rock method.”

The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.

Resources

Dream Rock Book

Transcript

Cassandra: [00:00:00] Hey friend, it’s Cassandra, and this is needed and known the podcast where we discover how to transform average moments into a great life by learning, growing, and becoming better humans together. I interview amazing people. Who’ve improved their communication relationships and perspectives in unique way.

This episode is for anyone who ever needs help falling asleep or knows parents of children who need help falling asleep. Timmy is a mom of two kids who struggled often with night terrors, anxiety, and typical bedtime fears. She developed a peaceful routine that helped her children to feel needed and known.

And today she’s sharing it with us. Hint, it works for grownups too.

Hey, Tammy. Thanks for joining us today.

Tammy: [00:00:46] Thank you, Cassandra. Thanks so much for having me.

Cassandra: [00:00:48] So tell us a little bit about you and your kids.

Tammy: [00:00:52] I am the mom of two kids. I had my first kid when I was 25 and then two years later I had my daughter.

So I’ve got a boy and a girl. And we’ve got your pretty typical suburban family and we live in San Diego.

Cassandra: [00:01:07] You also used to have a lot of. Bedtime frustration as many of

Tammy: [00:01:12] us do. If you could, you can give me a room with any parent who doesn’t. I would be really surprised. So, but yes, we had some, I thought they were special struggles, but the more I’m learning is they’re pretty common, but yes, we had a lot of bedtime issues from a pretty young ages with my kids.

As far as falling asleep, settling down. So I was tired for a lot, a lot, a lot of. And have come up with some things to help them fall asleep. And now we’re all happier, healthier, and, and it’s a work in progress. Of course, you know, nothing stays the same when you have a family, but we have come a long way, so that’s been good.

That’s great.

Cassandra: [00:01:53] What are some, so I know those situations with like in my house, what do they look like for you? What kinds of things would your kids do when they were not going to sleep?

Tammy: [00:02:02] That’s a good question. Cause it looks, it honestly does look different in every household. So our particular family situation, we have a lot of sensory issues and it’s genetic and generational.

So I have other family members with similar sensory processing. I’ll call it sensory processing. Yeah. Where I’m easily overwhelmed, stimulated by lights and sounds, and just having a really hard time calming down our bodies. You know a lot of people are familiar with, they say, they’ve got just kind of lightening going through their bodies or some little kids might say it’s, it feels like, you know, bees are buzzing in my arms and my chest and, and that’s kind of it can be a symptom of anxiety and also just overactive sensory.

Transmission. So for younger kids, some of them have a really hard time. Learning and getting their bodies to quiet that down. So that was our particular struggle was overcoming those kinds of body inputs. Now for my daughter, it was a different case. She had more of your typical bedtime fears, worried about being alone, not so much scared of the dark, but just kind of some of the things that come with bedtime fears.

So I kind of had both angles and had to do my best to find things that would work in several different situations.

Cassandra: [00:03:20] So, what was it like for you to fall asleep as a kid? Did you have these problems too? Or were you just kind of like, oh, I’ll just go to sleep.

Tammy: [00:03:26] I definitely have some friends who they’re like, I go to bed and I conk out, you know, what is what’s different, but no, that was not my experience as a kid.

So I think that’s one of the reasons why I have a particular interest in this is because I, as a kid also had trouble falling asleep and for again, a different angle. So maybe kind of a third. Direction of, of experience with this is when I was young, I lost my mother to cancer at a young age. And I don’t remember much of the time before that, but I have very vivid memories being in bed as a child and being scared, worried, and sad.

And. That was very overwhelming and that I didn’t know exactly how to comfort those things. So that was something I had to work on with my parents. I’m very lucky that my dad remarried and I have a great step-mom who raised me you know within a couple of years of that experience, but I still have just these vivid memories laying in bed.

And I don’t know if that’s something that everybody has those vivid memories. Do you remember being a kid and being in bed and being afraid?

Cassandra: [00:04:30] I can, you know what I can remember. I can remember being, and I’m sure I did this before then, but I remember I must’ve gotten in big trouble. You know, there’s an emotional association.

I was probably eight or nine. I would get up just like my kids did. I would get up and then I would get in trouble. I was going to sleep. Oh. But I need to go to the bathroom, so I’d go to the bathroom and then I come back to it. Oh. But now I I’d get some water. Okay. And then I go back to bed. Oh. I forgot to put my doll on the chair that it belongs on.

Okay. I’m gonna move the up. And then I get in trouble for being up all the time, which is funny because as an adult, I still, I will say to my head. I think I left the fridge door open. Like I’m confident it’s closed. I’m sure I left. I’m sure. Cause you know, sometimes you have to push it all the way I’m competence closed, but here I go, because otherwise I know I’m just, I’m going to lay in bed thinking about whether or not the refrigerator doors open.

And all I have to do is walk there and. And then of course, every time, so far it’s been closed. So yes, I not only had, but I have those issues

Tammy: [00:05:26] And that’s the funny thing. And that’s kind of one of the reasons why I really am passionate about addressing this now is because the more people I’ve talked to about this, I’ve kind of grown in interest over the last few years, even though we’re resolving most of our issues with my kids and in our home, the more people that I’ve talked to.

A, their kids also share these issues, but B the adults do as well. They either still do or did. And it’s just such a foundational building block to have a good night’s sleep that I’m like. Let’s look at this from a more holistic point of view. So many people are reactive. To their sleep as an they’re not being proactive and trying to solve and figure out why.

I mean, some people do don’t get me wrong. People spend lots of time trying to figure it out, but there’s a lot of just like, I can’t sleep. I don’t know why I wake up every day at 3:00 AM or I have a hard time falling asleep and I can’t put my place. Thinking of it more proactively is really interesting.

So more people I talked to the parents and the kids also have this in common. So really what I’m trying to learn about and, and work toward is for the whole family, not just the kids, but also for the parents and a little bias, you know, moms and some lots of tire dads out there and, and nobody’s happy and healthy.

Or at their best, at least if they’re not sleeping well. So just looking at it from the big picture, but definitely it comes and it stays with you. So I I’m like let’s look at this for everybody and figure out how we can work towards some solutions and not just deal with bad sleep, being a consistent, being consistent throughout our lives.

Cassandra: [00:07:03] Exactly. I love this. So Tammy spill the tea. What changed?

Tammy: [00:07:09] Desperation can be an amazing catalyst. I’ll tell you that. Right? Every parent has had that point where they’re like, I am just so desperate. I will try anything. So I tried a lot of things. I read a lot of parenting books. I read a lot of online forums and chatted with people, talk with professionals, doctors.

And one thing that can stick consistently stuck out to me was. The power of positive thinking as cliche as it sounds, but how do you explain that to a three-year-old who just can’t calm their body? It’s pretty difficult. So one night I was just so desperate and I had actually just gotten a gift that was But instead of opening the book, it was like this little inset with pretty rocks inside.

It was this like little Buddhist crystal set where each rock had a different meaning and meaning. And I thought it was just really cute and pretty, and. I was, so my kids were not going to bed. I had to figure something. I went and grabbed one of the rocks and I was like, we’re going to play a game. We’re going to talk about things that make us happy.

We’re going to come up with these fun ideas. And it kind of evolved. I don’t remember exactly that first night, but I do specifically remember running into the other room, grabbing a rock off my desk. And it’s just a rock. It’s not magic, but grabbing a rock on my desk, coming in and saying like, okay, let’s hold this rock in our hands.

Let’s be calm. And let’s just talk about like, what are some things you love? Let’s talk about things that you love and they don’t know what to do. So I went first.

Cassandra: [00:08:46] I love how your voice changed. They’re like your mom voice came on so strong and now I’m like, okay, what’s happening now? What do I need to do?

Okay. So we’re, so we’ve got the rock and we’re calming down.

Tammy: [00:08:58] So we’ve got the rock and. We have turned off. Most of the lights that’s one of my other things is if you have all the lights on people, say my kid’s not coming down. Turn off almost all the lights except for one lamp. And that reduces that sensory input in your body as well.

But next we were holding the rock and I said, okay, let’s talk about some things we love, but. Sometimes when you present a question or a theoretical thing like that, they get kind of deer in the headlights. Like what do I do? So I would go first and I would say, I love our cats. I love our house. I love our neighbors and our friends.

I love spaghetti and funny jokes and, you know, silly movie or something, you know, just name things that are both comforting, calm, and happy and silly and just kind of go. And then I say, okay, now it’s your turn. And I’d hand them the rock. And they would then come up and start coming up with some things and you know, what something really special happens.

I wish I was a medical doctor to explain what this is exactly. When you think positive things or use positive words, and you’re saying things out loud, your brain gets a little dose of dopamine. It’s a hormone release. When you say positive things and say things you love, then your body goes, Ooh, that feels nice to think about.

And that is just a really comforting feeling. So that was how it started. We. Wanted to make it a little bit more involved because that was good, but you’re still not quite like in the zone yet. So then I would take the ride and say, okay, now we’re going to come up with some things I want to dream about and come up with things that are really realistic.

And also that are just pure fantasy. So a really fun combo of like let’s dream about, you know, I want to take a family vacation and go to the beach in Hawaii or go to this museum in Italy and have ice cream together. Or I want to take a rocket to the moon that’s made of cotton candy and play with the bugs that live there.

You know, like I don’t know something silly and that just gets them out of that fear, body response, that anxiety response, and flips it to being positive. Kids also kind of believe that they’re going to dream those things. Right. They get excited. And they’re like, oh, that sounds really fun. Okay. And they snuggle in and go to bed.

So it’s not a cure all for everybody, but it’s such a fun thing. And it really does physically change your hormone levels and change the biology and the thought paths that are going through from the negative worry. What I, the other thing I was going to say, when you mentioned, you know, worrying about the refrigerator, Those two words for that there’s rumination when you’re consistently thinking about the same thing over and over again, and it can be either something that’s happening right now, like the refrigerator door, or it can be an argument with a friend I had two weeks ago and I just can’t stop thinking about it.

Those are the consistent things that come up at bedtime. Right. And then another one, another word for that is an intrusive thought. So you have these intrusive thoughts that are not totally based in reality. But once it pops up, you just can’t get rid of it and it’s destroyed. It’s disturbing and disruptive.

And so sometimes so it’s important thing to be aware of, to know if your brain has the same. And most people do a lot of people deal with that. So that’s not unusual. Every

Cassandra: [00:12:18] Wait– now I’m. Some people don’t deal with that. That’s amazing.

Tammy: [00:12:25] Most people we’ll deal with that, so it’s not unusual.

So I actually talked with a professional psychologist about this. I have a family member, who’s a child psychologist. And I said, I came up with this thing. Is this like weird? Does this work? Is this a bad idea? You know, what is it. Doing and why is it kind of working for us? And he said, you know, that’s a type of cognitive behavioral technique when you’re changing your negative thoughts to positive thoughts in a moment when you need a shift.

So he said, now it’s not a true replacement for therapy or for, you know, some other interventions. If someone really has a true clinical issue that they really need support with. But in the moment sometimes. At bedtime, when you just need to go to bed, you just need to switch that thinking, you know, that can be something to work on at another time of day, that’s more appropriate to really get into delving those fears.

And sometimes it’s not even realistic at bedtime. If you talk about trying to solve those fears at bedtime, you can’t work past it. You’ve got you just stuck in the scary. So switching it to the positive is really, really helpful. And it sounds. Woo-hoo it sounds like it’s like, okay, you just say things you’re happy about and you hold this rock.

Like, what is, but I just, I encourage people to try it and you know what? I even do it myself. It works. I don’t do it all the time. I don’t do it often, but sometimes if I’m having trouble fall asleep, I’ll be like, oh, let me get a dreamer rock. I’ll do that. Or I’ll do it without a rock. And just start thinking of the things that I love.

It’s very similar to people who have like a gratitude journaling practice at the end of the day. Same habit, different method, different words. But when you write down things that you’re thankful for, how does it make you feel, right? Is that something that you’ve done or do you do things like that?

Cassandra: [00:14:11] I do. Yeah, I have a gratitude journal. I actually usually do it in the morning so that I can have a good rest of the day, because at this point in my life, aside from the refrigerator I’ve got my own things that I do to go to sleep. And my husband calls me a light switch, so he can be mid thought talking to me in bed and I am out.

So I have to tell him I’m going to fall asleep now, which he knows now means I’m going to fall. Now

Tammy: [00:14:40] that’s impressive that, you know right. Exactly. When it’s going to be like,

Cassandra: [00:14:43] when you’re watching a movie and you know, I’m going to fall asleep

Tammy: [00:14:46] that’s another similar technique. I mean, a similar response of having someone you love and you, you know, cares for you, and this is a safe person and a safe voice talking to you as you fall asleep, your brain goes, Hmm, I’m safe.

This feels good. And then. Right.

Cassandra: [00:15:02] This is why mommy come lay with me. That’s where that comes from. Mommy, come lay with me. So you’ve created this story and you’re telling your kids, and at some point you realized, oh, other people are having this problem. My kids are having this problem. I’ve come up with a solution.

It is working. I need to get other people this solution. So how are you helping the listeners and everybody else

who needs this solution?

Tammy: [00:15:28] It’s really funny because I would tell people like before I made it into a story, it was just, it just started as a bedtime story or bedtime game I did with my kids.

And then people would be like, how do you do that? What I want to try this, this sounds really fun. And so my first Guinea pig was my niece at the time. Who’s the same age as my daughter. My sister called them were like, she’s, I’m having this real trouble. I said, I came up with the story, let’s try it.

So I went and I went to the San Diego botanical gardens, which there’s a bench there. That’s just like my, one of my favorite places in the whole world. And I planned on taking the afternoon. Was going to write it down. I couldn’t figure out how to write it. I was like, how do you explain, like you do this and then you do that.

But like in an interesting way, that would engage a child and be fun to look forward to not just like another, how to like boring thing you’d listened to. And so. I, as I sat there in the garden, I just started writing and it came out as a story of a parent and a child. Now I don’t, it works for both my son and my daughter, not, you know, it’s not specifically boards, they’re girls, but so it came through with a parent and a child doing it so that the reader of the story would then see exactly how to do it through.

Characters. So I wouldn’t have to explain, like, first you do this and then you do this. So I wrote that in a letter to my niece and I sealed it up and sent it on. Luckily I thought of taking a photo of the letter first, before I sent it through the mail and then they got it, they enjoyed it. My sister has five kids, so they enjoyed it.

I don’t think they used it all the time, but they, they were my first Guinea pigs, and then I decided to type it up and it was just kind of something like, oh, someday in the future, I want to. Do that, like, that would be neat someday when I have extra time. When does that ever happen? So and then 2020 happened and it was kind of an interesting wake up for a lot of us.

I think in the specific thought process I had was at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic. I did. None of us knew how big of a deal this was going to be or not. And so my thought, and this sounds extreme, but I don’t mean to extreme as extreme. I’m very comfortable with talking about this kind of topic, but I was like at the end of my life, I want to have done this and turn this into a story.

Now, whether that’s in two months, five months or 50 years, Who knows. And it could be this, it could be, you know, another catastrophe or it could be something that happens where I’m like, I better do this now because this is something that I really like. And I passionate it was on my someday list. So I’m going to do it now.

So I wrote it out into the story. I found an illustrator. I searched the whole world for an illustrator. My two finalists were a man in Vietnam and a woman in Madagascar. And I just really loved the images. Her drawing style was just so childlike and fun that I was like, this is, this is the one. So I waited until I had it written a little better.

And I like professionally begged her to take on my story. And she did, and I was so, so good.

Cassandra: [00:18:33] And she’s like, I also previously published illustrator as well. You found this world– I don’t want to know if world renowned as the right thing

Tammy: [00:18:44] or just world published. So she’s done books for other self-published authors and that’s where I found her.

I was looking through other self-published children’s books and, somewhere. Good. Some were not. And I have pretty high standards. So as I was looking through, I was like, this is the one I want. Like, she’s the one. And she has done at least a dozen or more. I don’t know exactly, but she’s done a lot of us.

And I feel like I am really lucky. I got her just in time because after she accepted my project, she started being approached, approached by traditional publishers. And, but because we had signed a contract and. Amazing. She finished my book. Just in time she finished our illustrations a couple of months ago and they’re just, they’re awesome.

They’re exactly what I had in mind and better. I had imagined these cute little scenes and she just turned them into. Fantasy world that is really fun. And adults like love them too, because it’s just so heartwarming and fun. So I’m really excited that she turned my words into this beautiful story that now I get to teach people this method through reading a fun story is just fun for the whole family and easier to understand, and then replicate yourself

Cassandra: [00:19:53] the illustrations. Absolutely stunning. I have the privilege of kind of being behind the scenes and getting to see them. And so they’ve been getting to see even just the dragon black and whites when they came through, I was like, and there’s the yellow page, the popcorn page.

And that’s one of my favorites because it’s just, like you say this magical dream world. It’s it’s they’re fantastic. I cannot wait to see it in person and hold it in my hands.

Tammy: [00:20:23] Let me describe that page to our listeners so they know exactly what it is.

So this was one of the dreams, the, the child and the. Book was having, and she says it as I like to dream about having popcorn and lemonade with my friends. And I was just coming at it from a perspective of like, we’re not with friends right now because we were all locked down and just, this is becoming, everybody’s realizing this is really important.

So we actually. That was a consistent theme throughout being with people you love and things you enjoy doing. So having lemonade and popcorn with your friends. And then I sent that to the illustrator and she turned it into the room is overflowing with popcorn and the lemonade is larger than the kid.

And then they also are holding their little glasses and they’re jumping. There’s a happens to be a cat in the room. That’s a consistent character throughout the story. Who’s like excitedly jumping out of the popcorn and it’s just really fun and kids love that kind of stuff. And I wouldn’t have had the vision to draft it out in a picture.

So that’s how you know, it was so serendipitous of like my idea came together with the specific illustrator that I had to have, and it’s really, really fun.

Cassandra: [00:21:36] I have not talked to you about this, so surprised, but just knowing from what we’ve talked about and even what you’ve shared today, I’ve been working with the kids on like, what are we going to dream about? And I loved the, your description of the rocket ship and then the going to a planet and seeing all the fun bugs and stuff.

Cause I was like, oh, we’re not getting deep enough. Like we’re not doing enough today.

Tammy: [00:21:57] As I said that out loud to rocket ship, right. As I said that out loud, you have to do have to be careful of your kids’ individual triggers. Cause I said, as I said that to you and I mentioned bugs, I was like, Ooh, that would be a bad one in my house because bugs are right.

Oh no. Thank you. The beautiful thing about it too, is like, I just give the example of things you can do, but then you customize it to your kid’s specific interests and things that they really enjoy and really like, and that is where the magic happens.

Cassandra: [00:22:25] It works. So they got up once there was one call and then I said, okay, but I’m going to go cause you need to go build your rocket and you have to close your eyes and go to sleep.

And they were out. So it is working. So I’m very excited to share that with everybody.

Tammy: [00:22:40] Um,

Cassandra: [00:22:41] I hadn’t heard that story yet.

And so how can we support you in this journey with your book? What can we do? How, how can I get my hands on this book, Tammy? That’s what I need to know.

Tammy: [00:22:54] So my website is dream rock, book.com, and that will redirect to wherever is currently being sold.

And so that is coming out very shortly and then and each book comes with a, the book and a rock. So I found a distributor. Which did you know, there was currently a ruck shortage in the world?

Cassandra: [00:23:18] I did, but only because I’ve tried helping you find this

Tammy: [00:23:21] currently a rock shortage, which sounds like the most ridiculous thing.

But I was looking for a very specific rock that is just really pretty and kids like it because it’s, multi-dimensional. Parts are clear and parts are, have color in different layers. And so I wanted something that was really magical and kids can choose their own too. You know, you can go to any crystal shop, but I wanted to include, so that the first night you get it, you don’t have to say, oh, now we got to go find something to do this with.

Nevermind. You know I wanted it to come as a set and it’s really fun. You know how kids love those little surprise.

Cassandra: [00:23:53] Yes,

Tammy: [00:23:54] it’s wrapped in something. So it comes in a little cloth pouch, and then the rocks are the same type, but they’re all different color variations. So purple green, blue clear. And so which one is going to come in your set?

I don’t know, but it’s really pretty. So I’m excited to share that with everybody .

Cassandra: [00:24:10] Thank you so much, Tammy. I think that that wraps up all my questions. Is there anything else that you wanted to add?

Tammy: [00:24:17] Yeah. So I was really excited when you asked me to do this episode, because I have always been a big fan of your podcast specifically because of the name of your podcast.

And I love the needed and known aspect. And I think that is a direct relation to my mission with this dream rock book and that. The real magic is not just, you know, changing your thoughts to positive thoughts. Yay. Like, great. Put my kid to bed, you know, go to sleep. It’s more than just that it is developing a safe space, developing that trust and the dreams that you then come up with after you read the book and then you do the method yourself.

Customizing the dreams and talking about it with things that you love that are in your home and dreams that are specific things that your kid loves. Like, we talk about having Minecraft dreams all the time, because that’s specifically what my son is into my daughter’s really into dragons right now.

So we talk about having these dragon fantasy experiences and all this stuff. And so what does that do right then? Takes me and my child together and helps them feel like I am aware of what they care about. It helps them feel like someone has noticed them and what they’re interested in. And just as, as much as it is interesting that they feel calm when they talk about things that they love, they feel calm when someone else who lives in there.

Looks at them gets down on their level. It’s really important to me that I sit with them either sit on their bed or kneel down next to their bed. And I’m eye to eye with this child. I’m not looming over them as an adult. And I get with them on the same page. And that is one of the aspects of it that really helps them settle down.

And if I do it as an adult helps me settle down. When I feel like somebody cares about what I care about and hears me say what I care about and repeats that back to me or says, that sounds so beautiful and so excited for you. You’re going to have great dreams. How fun, what a good idea. How validating is that to our child?

Who was struggling with fears or being scared or being lonely or worried who now had this touching trust building moment with their parent. And now they can go to sleep because they’ve been heard is really, really important. And it’s a, I haven’t elaborated on that as much in the book, but it is a true psychological effect of doing this process with your child.

And so I was just so excited when I was like, this makes me. And my child feel needed and no. And how much that means to having a good night’s sleep, which leads to better health, which leads to doing better in school, which, you know, being, having better friendships with your friends, because you’re not feeling insecure.

You’ve got, you know, you’ve got this. Supportive system at home and especially at bedtime, which is such an intimate, cozy time of day for kids. So that’s why I was just so excited that you asked me to be on here because I think it’s absolutely relevant and it being needed and known makes you healthier, happier, and sleep better.

So thank you, Cassandra.

Cassandra: [00:27:25] Thank you for coming on. I appreciate it.

If at this point you find yourself saying, what was the name of that book again? Remember I always put the links in the show. Or you can find [email protected] slash podcast. Thank you for helping Tammy to feel needed and known until you need me next time.

Bye.

How to Turn a Dream into a Business

You’ve got a really great idea. And some self-doubt. And tons of fear. But it has the nerve to wake you up first thing every morning with new ideas.

Ericka gets it. She was told “no” many times. And in the middle of a pandemic when her industry was struggling, she tried to buy a business.

In this episode you will learn how to rally your troops to help you fight the “no’s” and some of Ericka’s quick tips to help propel you in your industry.
The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.

Notes and Resources

Hartworks Floral Website

Hartworks Floral Instagram

Transcript

Cassandra: [00:00:00] Hey friend, it’s Cassandra, and this is needed and known the podcast where we show you how to have joyful relationships and meaningful conversations through life-changing stories.

Have you ever wondered what it looks like in real life to pursue a dream? Not the sales pitch of here’s how I make a billion dollars a month, but the real work is done.

Overcoming fear and freaking out to your people dream I’m introducing you to Ericka will share her journey and some friendly advice she’s picked up on her way to being one of the leading florists in Southern California.

Ericka: [00:00:31] Thanks so much for having me.

Cassandra: [00:00:32] So take us on this journey with you. Where did youstart?

Ericka: [00:00:35] Well, I went to school to be an interior designer. So I started out as a commercial interior designer in San Diego. And did that for a couple of years, went on to become a design assistant. And then I just tinkered in a bunch of different positions trying to find something I was passionate about.

Never really landing on it. But I worked as a assistant manager for a bookstore, did a lot of buying and merchandising for them. I worked as a department assistant at one time. I was an event coordinator at one time. So I kind of just bounced around for a while, trying to figure out what I wanted to do.

Cassandra: [00:01:12] That

sounds really fun and beautiful. What really drove

you to do all of that?

Ericka: [00:01:17] I did not want to have. A nine to five. That was like the biggest thing for me. I am a creative and I functioned very well with different experiences. So I don’t want to sit at a desk all day. Sit at a desk for half a day and then go do something else. So I was constantly filling my time. While I was working in the bookstore part-time I was nannying part-time so that I was doing different things and I was able to move around and stuff.

Cassandra: [00:01:48] Were there any like fears or things that you told yourself like to make you believe you had to have a full-time job or what sounds like over a full-time job?

Ericka: [00:01:56] I did that a lot for. Up until I turned 26, I was kicked off my parents’ health insurance. So that was the day I knew I had to go get a real full-time job, a real full-time job.

Cassandra: [00:02:08] The game changer, I need insurance.

Ericka: [00:02:11] I’m such a critical, like a logistical critical thinker that I was like, okay, now’s the time.

I didn’t know what I wanted to do. That was when I went into that design department assistant position, because I was like, I don’t know what I want to do, but I know I need health insurance and I wanted to be able to move out into my own apartment. So I needed to make enough money to be able to afford my own.

So those were the two things that got me there. That’s what happens when you grow up,

Cassandra: [00:02:37] it made you so you, now you’ve got bills, you’ve got insurance, you’ve got things you need to pay for it. How did it feel to take the leap? I remember you going from full-time to part to more part-time so that you had time to do the things that you were realizing you wanted to do, and that you were really made for.

How did that feel? That full-time to part-time transition?

Ericka: [00:02:58] It was relieving, but it was also very stressful for me. I am my biggest critic. I have always been my biggest critic. I hold myself to very high standards very high levels of excellence. So for me it was exciting because I came to a time where I could really focus on things.

I was passionate. For, rather than just trying to collect a paycheck. But it was also difficult because I, I wasn’t quite meeting my own standards and it, I don’t know, it was an interesting season. I was definitely grateful to have people around me who were encouraging me through it because I didn’t really know what I was doing.

I just knew I was ready for the next thing.

Well, that all kind of happened around the time I got married. So my husband’s been one of my biggest supporters. It just got a little cheat teary-eyed, which is so weird. But he’s been one of my biggest supporters and like I said, I’m hyper critical of myself. So there was a lot of times that I questioned what I was doing.

He was always in my ear telling me that it’s going to be okay, we’re gonna figure it out together. We’re going to be able to take the next step together. So he was always a huge support of me. I also had my parents who Or just, you know, in my ear that just because I want things to be done perfectly doesn’t mean that they always have to go perfectly.

And I think you know, being a believer, that’s kind of one of the cool things that the Lord shows us that we don’t have to do everything perfectly, even though my standard is really high. It doesn’t have to go that way all the time. And so it’s really been the people around me that have come to me and reminded me of these things.

Cause I need these reminders daily.

Cassandra: [00:04:51] I think, you know, perfectionism is this illusion, right? And it, it always evades us. Cause it doesn’t, it doesn’t exist in our own power. Like it’s not something that we can get to. And so you have this image of your head of what it looks like. So it sounds like you kind of learned to break through.

In this process, which sounds very challenging because it’s your, it’s your life, right? It’s your apartment, it’s your food. It’s everything, because you’re hoping that it works. So. Did all of the heavens and angels sing once you started calling yourself a wedding florist, what happened in

this next? But I haven’t been angels if you mean everyone around me, then yes, that definitely happened because it was kind of crazy.

Ericka: [00:05:35] So I’m a wedding and event florist. And I have, I technically started playing with flowers. I say, because it’s an art form where we’re practicing all the time. But I started playing with flowers when I was in high school. I took my first class and just as a continued education class for fun, but I really enjoyed it.

And I learned the fundamentals, which this was over 10 years now a little bit longer. So. You know, working on this for a long time, but I, I picked up kind of this part-time, you know, doing this on my own three years ago or three and a half years ago now. And it was so funny because a friend encouraged me to to do it for a wedding that she was coordinating and I came alongside her and did the flowers and.

Whoa like this, this is people’s careers. Like this is something that you could make a living doing. I was so fulfilled. I was so encouraged and we were out in the beating hot sun, you know, creating an arch at the ceremony and I was just so fulfilled. So that was kind of the start of me being a wedding florist, but it wasn’t enough to be full-time.

I took sometime working a full-time job and doing that as well. And it wasn’t until I came to this new opportunity, which we’re talking about now, where I finally decided, okay, no, like this is really who I am, and this is the career path that I can see myself going down for. A long time.

Cassandra: [00:07:14] I think, I think that’s so that’s the way that it goes for a lot of people who, who make that leap right. It’s I’m going to stick my toe. I think, you know, the popular terms are side hustle and you know, those kinds of things, what it really is, is like exploring something that you’re really passionate about in your, you know, any extra time people can get really hung up. Like you said, like on the perfectionist or like, oh, I’m not a wedding florist.

Well, wedding Flores was always. What did, what was the term you used, you playing with flowers, somebody who plays with flowers, like that starts somewhere. So whether you’re in your teens or your twenties or your thirties, or even your fifties or sixties, you have to start playing with them or whatever it is somewhere.

So I love that. That’s what you did. You were like, this is, oh, this is that thing. It’s it’s a beautiful thing that you dove into that as opposed to like, people will feel that it breaks my heart. Cause people will feel that. And then they’re like, this is amazing. And then immediately bring it back down.

Like it’s too bad. I can’t do this more often. And you’re like, but you could, like, you just have to, you have to make the time, create the environment for it. Tell people that you did some flowers and I really love. So you start gearing up to buy a business. Can you walk us through that experience?

Ericka: [00:08:26] Definitely. How much time do we have? No, I’m just kidding. Yeah, so through the wonderful year of 2020 it kinda came down to a point where All weddings were canceled or postponed. I had some small elopements, but ultimately it was a year of pause for our industry. And I was kind of trying to decide what route I wanted to go.

Honestly, I was like, am I in this? Or am I done? Those are, those were my questions. And my husband and I started looking into, you know, what would send some next steps and opportunities before me. And I. This sounds crazy. Heard about a website where people sell their businesses. I found a business that I wanted to buy and I called them up and went and met them and saw the space.

And that’s kind of where the journey began. Over the next eight months. We worked through contracts, waste agreements. I had to bring in a lawyer and accountant. I had to get investors. I had to do a lot of work to finally be able to say that I purchased a business. I bought a business and there was so many.

Hills and valleys, there was ups and downs. There was good moments, stressful moments. There were seasons months where I was like, is this even happening or is this not happening?

Cassandra: [00:09:54] Okay. So when you, so you’ve started this process and so do you, do you have like an agent or do you just go like, Hey, I want to, I want to buy a business.

Like, how does that. How does that work?

Ericka: [00:10:09] Oh, this is gonna be a whole nother episode. I learned.

Cassandra: [00:10:11] Teach us, teach us

Ericka: [00:10:14] technically, when you are selling a business, you can do private. It’s just like, I don’t know if it’s just like, I never bought a home, but it’s similar to buying a home. You could sell it yourself or you can hire a business broker to sell it for you. So that was one of the deep valleys that we experienced in this process.

Was she. Had hired a broker to help her sell the business. Long story short, he wasn’t actually a broker. And I, I don’t know how to tell this in a condensed version, but for the most part he ghosted me and he didn’t, he didn’t return it.

Cassandra: [00:10:49] So the agent that was representing her was like, you’re not a good fit for this.

Ericka: [00:10:54] Yeah. Actually I found out. So when you buy a business, you can have a representative and they can have a representative, I guess, you know, similar to real religious Realtree. So in. It’s well, to get to the nitty gritty, they get a 10% commission and either the one person gets it, who’s selling and buying and representing both people.

Or they have to split it between two brokers and they each get the 5%. So this broker wanted it all for himself. So he was negotiating with me, but he wasn’t returning my calls. So I picked up the phone and found another broker and called him and said, what am I doing this wrong? What’s going on? This guy offered to call the original broker and do some investigative work for me, pro bono, which was amazing.

I had been waiting weeks for a response and within 20 minutes he called me back and said, I just talked to him and he said, you’re not qualified. They do not want to go with you. And they’re not interested. And I thought, what the heck? Like, okay, that’s my answer. This is not going to work.

Cassandra: [00:12:04] You’d met with her.

Ericka: [00:12:05] Right.

Cassandra: [00:12:05] And the business owner and had good rapport. You felt like you were vibing and like, okay, this is going to be a thing. Kind of like, oh, this is something like, oh, we can see the magic. And then you’re not a good fit

Ericka: [00:12:19] from based on what the business broker said. So I thought, okay, I’m out. My husband came home from work.

I told him the story. And he said, you know what? I, I’d never been in direct contact with her. The owner only this broker, he said, find an email address online, send an email and say, Hey, I’m so sorry if I wasted your time. If you aren’t interested, then, you know, I totally understand. I was really excited for this.

And if you change your mind in the future, let me. Signed it with my signature, which had my cell phone number on it. And within five minutes, she called me and said, what? That is not the case. I loved you. You were adorable. You’re totally the kind of person that I would want to continue my legacy take over my business.

I want to move forward with you. I said, okay, we can do that, but I don’t want to work with. And we continued moving forward. Just turn I working on this deal.

Cassandra: [00:13:13] This is a classic case of no does not mean no,

Ericka: [00:13:16] exactly. And let me tell you that was the first of probably four nos that I experienced on that eight month journey.

Cassandra: [00:13:24] Are you able to share any of those?

Ericka: [00:13:27] Of course she, so I took over a 2000 square foot, a studio space. It’s got two floral studios in it. Two offices, two restrooms. Two entries. It’s, it’s really cool. It has all of her stuff in it. And I, that was a part of my acquisition. And she had been in this space for 19 years previous to me coming in.

And they had gone through three different building owners and she didn’t have a, and. And I said, well, I’m not gonna take this over. The space and all of this stuff. It, she has built in coolers. She has industrial sinks. All of these things that I haven’t had in my previous space are things that I am acquiring.

So I want to ensure that there’s a proper lease in place. Yeah, makes sense. Right. So we spent three months trying to get a hold of the landlord, calling, emailing, texting with no response. And it was another hurdle for us to get through because to her she’d been here for 19 years. That’s fine.

Can you just be okay with that? And to me. You know, no, I need to have a proper lease. I want to know that when I move in, they’re not going to evict me the next month. I want to know that, you know, they’re okay with a new person coming in. And that was really important to me. So that was the second half of our eight month journey was spent trying to get a proper lease in place.

And Literally I signed the lease and the next day I signed a contract or maybe vice versa. I signed a contract with her and the next day I signed the lease for the space because it was that important to me. And that’s all we were waiting for to close the deal.

Cassandra: [00:15:13] Having these nos come at you at any point, are you feeling like I might fail at this?

Ericka: [00:15:19] Yes. Yes. Cassandra, I did feel like I might fail at this and ultimately it’s It’s kind of a crazy story because. I was okay with that. It was totally something that I

Cassandra: [00:15:35] Wait…. A perfectionist is okay with failing?!. This is a whole separate episode. No tell seriously though. How did that tell us what you think happened inside or what you were hearing from around you?

How did you

Ericka: [00:15:48] not to be a Jesus freak, but totally my relationship with God. I, I handed this over to him every single morning and I said, Months wanting to fall asleep at 10 o’clock at night, exhausted to be up at 3:00 AM with thoughts and questions, and I’d pull out my phone and I’d be jotting down notes and things I need to work on, or, you know I’m very grateful for other people in the industry, connections I’ve made.

And so who should I call tomorrow and ask about where I’m at or. You know, what are resources that I can, I can use to make this happen? Because there’s just so many unknowns and I, I didn’t know what the outcome was going to be, but like I said, I, I. Gave it back to God every morning. And I said, okay, if this is going to happen, then it’s going to happen.

And I would love for it to happen. And I’m working really hard to make it happen. But if it doesn’t happen, then, you know, we figure out the next thing, 2020 has been a crazy year. And I think a lot of people experienced that. What am I doing with my life? Do we move out of state? Do we start a new career?

Like what direction do we want to go with our, with our career path or family or whatever? So, you know, for us, it was like, okay, if this is going to happen, that’d be great. But if it’s not going to happen, then I’m ready to move on to the next thing, which is why, when I say. The broker that I found called and said, it wasn’t going to work.

I was like, okay, great. That’s a door that’s closed and we’re going to move on to the next one. But it’s definitely, I mean, don’t give me too much credit because it’s not, I am a perfectionist and I do want everything to go swimmingly. But this is just, this is just a different experience for me to be like, okay, if it’s not going to happen, then it’s just not going to.

Cassandra: [00:17:41] That’s great. So literally that day that you got the call within 20 minutes, that’s that cracks me up. That he called you back within 20 minutes, but he called you back within 20 minutes. And he said, Nope, they you’re not qualified for, they they’ve said you’re not qualified for this.

So that’s what happened. Okay. And then you tell your husband that, and he’s like, That seems strange.

Cause I think you’re very qualified, seemed like that was going to work out just in a little love note and see what happens. And you know, my husband’s always like you don’t get, if you don’t ask what other questions from friends were helpful during this time, as, as opposed to like, Hey Ericka, how’s that florist thing going?

You know what I mean? That’s not a helpful question.

Ericka: [00:18:22] I started this thing. In the middle-ish of that journey where I, in the beginning, I didn’t know, like, is this going to happen at all? And then there got to a point where she actually had a couple bids and I was one of them and I turned it into her.

And I was waiting for her response. I was very passionate about continuing her legacy and pushing on what she’s built. She started this company before I was born. So it’s been around San Diego for over 30 years. And. In the middle of this journey, I actually started a close friends group on my Instagram and I had 25 or 30 people on there.

And I just used it as like a daily journal. Like, Hey, today I did this or today I didn’t hear from this person or whatever. And that was honestly one of the coolest things I could’ve done because. Instead of blasting it out to everyone on my social media, it was a very small group of people that I trusted that I, I loved that loved me.

And that encouraged me. And with any post I was, I mean, I think there was like, it started out with maybe 15 or 17 people, and then it ended up growing. I’d mentioned it to people and it ended up growing to about 30 people, but I would share an update. Daily or every other day. And I would just get DMS constantly from people who I didn’t even know were paying attention.

You know, they’re like, oh yeah, add me. And I added them on. And then, you know, they’d be texting me like, oh my gosh, like you’re such a boss, babe. Or, you know, I can’t believe you’re working so hard on this. Or I have a lot of self doubt. So just hearing other people say you’re doing a great job, means so much to me.

And there was so many people around me that were doing that when once we ended up closing the deal even afterwards I had a hard time believing that this even happened. And even to this day, I’m like, wait, what? Like this is mine. But over the last few months, since we. I have rebranded, I’ve taken over this 2000 square foot space.

As I said, that was lavender and a bit of a hoarder’s nightmare with all of the stuff she’s accumulated over the years. And I had people here every weekend helping me organize paint, go through stuff. So just that constant support of people around you. Was so helpful in times where I was not giving myself enough grace, there were others around me who were like, Hey, no, you’ve got this and you’re doing the best you can.

Or you don’t even have control of that. So, you know, let it go and move on to the next thing.

Cassandra: [00:21:07] I love that. That’s so good. There are, you know, you’ve got your network, right? And you’ve got the people, you have people who are close to you, who will support you and encourage you. And there are people who are close to you who are going to ask those hard questions and are going to discourage you and with good intention, right?

Like they have, their heart is in the right place. They want the best for you, but they’re like looking out for you in a way that’s harmful. And so for that situation, you created a safety net, basically a bubble of this is what I need. This is what I’m going to get. And I’m going to protect myself.

In our culture, there’s a lot of. Just put it out there. Who cares? What other people say? Well, when you care, what other people say you care it matters. And especially when you’re going into an industry where it does matter what people think, because you want to have pretty arrangements.

And I’m so proud of you for doing that because I don’t think. Enough people protect themselves in that way. And I love that you have intentionally surrounded yourself with people who are supportive and who love you, and who are going to tell you all the things you need to hear because they know your heart and they know your brain.

And they know, I know what Ericka is saying to herself, and I’m going to tell her she’s a boss, babe.

Ericka: [00:22:21] Yeah. And I, I put that out there. Like I started using. Responses with positive notes because that’s, , I don’t want you to come off reading something that I say as negative. So I started with a positive note and I think people are super receptive of that.

They see that and want to do the same.

Cassandra: [00:22:40] So what advice do you have for people, for individuals who want to pursue a dream? What have you learned that you would like to impart?

Ericka: [00:22:47] There are people. Around you who love themself and love what they do enough to share it with you. People love being complimented.

So I just walk around and I meet new people and I’m like, oh my gosh. Yeah. I do know you. I saw you on Instagram, or I know you partnered with this person for this event or whatever, compliment them, and then ask them to meet up or catch up or grab coffee. I want to know more about you or whatever that is.

I have found so many fruitful relationships by just asking someone new to go grab coffee. I am a big networker, so I go to networking events a lot. I find that they are actually an enjoyable day off to me, which I know some people do not enjoy them and they would feel very differently. I’ll go to a networking event on a day off, I’ll meet a new person.

And next thing you know, I’m chatting with a florist. Who’s opened two retail locations actually bought her first one as a business, just like I’m doing. And I spent an hour FaceTiming with her and learning everything that she learned. For example, just because you’re buying a space with a bunch of junk in it doesn’t mean it’s valuable.

It could be just junk that now you have to go through. So I think my encouragement would be to find people that you admire what they’re doing and just going into them. Cause they’re more than happy to share the information that they’ve,

Cassandra: [00:24:16] That’s really good. That is really good. You know, I’m a big fan of reading and a big fan of learning and growing.

So I was reading a book by Brian Grazer who helps start a production company. And then Bob Goff and Donald Miller. Now Bob Goff and Donald Miller know each other, but they don’t know Brian Grazer to my knowledge . And they also the same thing they all said, most people genuinely want to help you.

If you ask, they will do their best to help you, right? Like people aren’t going to give you a millions of dollars, but they will give you their time. And so I think that is such a valuable, valuable tip.

What advice would you have for the dreamers, friends and family?

Ericka: [00:24:55] I think that what I learned through this experience is everyone moves at their own pace.

And your. Goals or your vision of next steps might not be that person’s vision for their next steps. So to give them grace and understanding and encouragement because we all function different differently. I, for example working from home, I am a very slow worker. I get very distracted with household chores and so I would come home some days and my husband.

What do you, what’d you get done today? Like, what are you working on? And I’d be like, oh, well I did the dishes or, you know, whatever. And he just had so much grace and understanding with, okay, well, that’s where she’s at today. And let me tell you, I now. An office and I spend eight to 10 hours here, which is not healthy.

I’m working on my boundaries. It’s just a very busy season. And I get so much stuff done here because it’s just a more productive space for me. So I’m just grateful that he had the space to give me that grace and understanding,

Cassandra: [00:26:06] and we know that you’re leaving it there because you just said you don’t know how to take it home very well with you. So that’s good. Eight to 10 hours for a new business. Sounds okay to start. And you know, so this is that age, 10 hour, seven days. We can talk about this offline. Do you have anything that you want to add?

Ericka: [00:26:25] There was one other piece of advice I had for an individual looking to pursue something.

Make sure it’s something that you’re truly passionate about because ultimately When it gets down to doing something you love. And like I just said, working long, long hours you have to make sure it’s worth it for you, for your family, for your, you know, money and All that kind of stuff, because it, it takes a lot of time.

There’s a quote I love, which says entrepreneur is a person who’s up late working a hundred hours for themselves to avoid working 40 hours for someone else,

Cassandra: [00:27:01] Whether you’re the dreamer or the friend of a dreamer. I know that Ericka had some great notes for you. Remember, you can always get those in the show.

Or by going directly to needed a known.com/podcast. Thank you for helping Ericka be needed and known, and you know, the drill. If you enjoy this podcast, please leave a review. Until you need me next time.

What is the value of knowing your values?

“Do you know your values?”

It was the simplest question. I know my personality types on a handful of tests and personal exams, but VALUES? I was stumped.

Values always sounded like something handed down to me. A generational gift I inherited and had no voice in. But the reality is so much better.

In this episode, I walk you through the value that a simple conversation had on my life and I will walk you through finding your values.

Next Steps

Let me know if you made any neat discoveries about yourself and share your values below!

How to Be a Quality Friend with Heart Convos

This friendship kinda sucks.

You know it. They know it. But what now? Does your relationship need more Snapchats or TikTok dances together? Perhaps a night out will fix it?

Take the guesswork out of what’s next. In this episode, KB from Heart Convos shares her journey from Trash Friend to having meaningful Heart Convos. What does a good friendship look like? How do I make simple changes to get to the relationships I want to have and to be the best kind of friend that I can be?
The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.

Subject Resources

Heart Convos Website

Ted Talk: 9 Ways To Tell If Your Friends Are Trash

KB and Heart Convos on Instagram

Transcript

Cassandra: 0:00

Hey friend, it’s Cassandra, and this is needed average moments into a great life by learning, growing, and I interview amazing people, who’ve improved their Today I’m interviewing KB from Heart Convos. She’s a conversation coach who has a lot to If you’ve ever wondered how to go deeper in your relationships why some people don’t, this is the episode for you.

KB: 0:37

Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited

Cassandra: 0:39

to be here. Okay. So let’s just start at the beginning. Tell us about your revelation that you were a trash friend.

KB: 0:46

I don’t know if it was a one time moment, however, I think And I think I had one too many bad breakups and friendship. I had just a ton of disappointing conversations, to that place of like, I don’t know what’s wrong and I’m tired And so. It wasn’t a one time like, oh my gosh, like I see just a discontent with being where I was in friendship. And over time it was like, I’m sick of this. Like I need something different. And so that’s how it, that’s kinda how it started for me.

Cassandra: 1:31

That’s awesome. I think what drew me to you is the fact that I have I’m like, no, you’re not a bad friend to me. I don’t know who you’re being a bad friend to. And also I feel like a bad friend, a lot of the time, That’s the person I want to be a friend with. That’s the part, that’s the person I do not want to be And so you start identifying those things That’s not good. Oh, we get along real well, everything is good. But then this thing happened and I don’t want to talk about it. So we’re just going to forget about,

KB: 2:05

yeah and after you have one too many bad situations, paying attention, because when everything’s going good, Nobody’s paying attention to anything. It’s when you have the, you lose the one friend that you thing blows up that you didn’t really want to blow up or drift Like how we got here. And so where did we go wrong?

Cassandra: 2:31

Anyway? So many of us feel like trash friends sometimes. And like, we know when we’re being a bad friend, we know when like, we don’t know exactly what we’re doing or how to fix it. And I think for, you know, there’s two types of art There’s the pursuer, the one who’s like, what can Can we just, what can I do? I know I did something wrong. Like what can I do? And then there’s the other side. That’s like, Just let us slide. We’ll just move on.

KB: 3:00

Yeah. I think people swing to the extremes of like, I don’t care. I’m too busy. I don’t have time anyway, like that guarded. Like I’m not going to let this affect me more than I than I want it to, or more than what’s convenient for me. But then there’s the other side that of people who are just Like I want this to work and sometimes that’s motivated sometimes there are people who, or like they, they are they don’t like to lose things for not, or let things Like they want understanding they want clarity. They don’t like kind of living in the fog and uncertainty And so they’re the ones asking the questions, But it’s all about values. It’s all about where you’re at. It’s all about what you want. And if you know what you want, you will be more intentional But when it comes to friendships, we’re not thinking date, we think deeply when we’re married, we’re trying to, We think very deeply when it comes to friendships,

Cassandra: 4:11

Well, and they’re all the same. I mean, obviously I’m not sleeping with my friends, but. Ultimately the core of the relationship is the same. That, that like the, the needs are, are similar, Everything is similar about your friendships or whoever you’re dating or whatever, the similar core. But like you say, we don’t put any emphasis on that Ooh. But if I want to get married, I know what I expect. I know what he needs to look like. I need.

KB: 4:44

Cool reg, I don’t understand why in friendship, we kind like stand the test of time and to get us through our Yeah. You know, again, like you said, in marriage, in dating people They have their expectations listed out some of them since They’ve got boundaries, you know, in mind for like what And again, in my mind, I’m thinking to myself, if practicing this in your friendships, your entire life, And all of a sudden just know what to do. I don’t, I, it would be hard to believe that that’s possible. Which is why I think the people don’t stay together because is whatever sex is, whatever friendship is going to be. The reason why you and I are still in this thing,

Cassandra: 5:40

I do

KB: 5:42

for the friendship, you know, But a lot of people realize like, oh, there’s not really a friendship here. There’s not, we got together for agreement’s sake, But people downplay the power of friendships so often. And that’s really, I think what sustained That’s really good. That’s really good. So if you’re listening and you’re single, go make some real Just make good friendships with people. You, you hear those stories of like, we were friends for so And that’s why that’s genuinely why I think that happens. Or like, so like my husband, we met through a friend, a friend know, you see him and you’re like, who’s that I don’t want Keep your Playboy or whatever, which is hilarious. You know, you get this impressions and it doesn’t, And we don’t do, we don’t do anything like that for friends she’s got a nice first or, you know, I really liked whatever. And you base everything on that. One thing that you liked or that one conversation instead of. Yes, the deepness. So listen, if we picked our S if we picked our romantic we pick our friends, there would be so much judgment. Like you didn’t ask any questions, did you? Yeah, no, it would be a problem.

Cassandra: 7:09

Well, and I think to your point, it kind of These were good. He was, he was good looking. She was good looking and that’s all it took. And here, like we’re Megan horrified faces of like,

KB: 7:24

here. This isn’t going to end. Well, this is not,

Cassandra: 7:28

those are the worst. Nobody wants to go to your wedding. I gotta be honest with you. I’ve been to a couple where you sitting in the way you’re like, Lord, please let this work out, please. Let me be wrong. I’m okay to be wrong about this. So to, to segue a little you have a really great Ted And we should look through those trash bins. If, if anybody listening once hear the Ted talk, I think you We’re not going to talk about all nine of them. What are your favorite ones on that list of like, If I could summarize these nine things down into a few

KB: 8:05

Yeah. So the Ted talk is called nine ways to tell if If you type in that nine ways to tell it’ll pop up Ooh, they won’t go deep as my favorite. I love the story that I tell about my daughter And so I, I feel like I need to go through all nine so that I don’t even know if I could say them verbatim. Let me see. The relationship is one sided. They don’t respect your boundaries. They’re not supportive. They treat other people poorly. They won’t fight for you or with you. You’re not a priority. Did I say that? They won’t go deep. They’re abusive. They’re character sucks. I think are the nine. I think I might’ve repeated one, but my favorite one is number of my daughter us taking her to Disney world and she wanted And so we get to the pool she’s in her bathing suit I don’t, first of all, I don’t do shared water. So it was a big sacrifice for me. Okay. And so we’re in the pool. When I come on a mine, like, come get it. And she’s like, no, she’s just enjoying, like keeping her feet, of playing at the, you know, not even in the shallow end, After about 45 minutes of this, we were like, oh, we’re So we get up to the room and naturally her grandparents say, How did it go? Was like, it was good. We went swimming. And in my mind, I know you did not sweat. I don’t know what your definition of swimming. But what you did was not swimming. And I think sometimes people feel that way in They’re being honest, open, vulnerable, transparent. It’s like, you know, you’re not really, like you might But that transparent part, that vulnerability part, you’re And you keep resisting going there because you’re guarded. You feel like, oh, if I go there, have the ability They’re going to hurt me. So I just kind of act like I have it all And that to me is, is I think my favorite of online Not because I enjoy people that won’t go deep, but that people should be mindful of in their relationships. That when a person will not lean into vulnerability in something about what they want and your, the relationship

Cassandra: 10:36

you know, I think that’s so. That’s so good. We have, we have some interviews coming up and One lady Who has cancer, who has she’s in remission now. So you know, she’s been fighting cancer and just the goes through that of like, I have no control over my body. I can’t do what I want. And if you’re not willing to have those conversations, one, And two. That relationship isn’t growing. And if it’s not growing, it’s dying. There’s no such thing as standing.

KB: 11:07

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Cassandra: 11:09

So how can we go from being unavailable trash connections and as wise woman might say: Heart Convos

KB: 11:20

Yeah. You know let me just say in general, it’s not that, well, dang, I’m a trash friend because I’ve been in one side at And that doesn’t make you a trash friend. I think what, what I would say makes someone a trash friend for so many years is that I had all of these traits. Alive and active in my life. And I was unwilling to change them. I had settled down into them and made them the standard Seeing the damage that it was causing and then wanting to. Fix or mend or grow beyond the behavior and And so don’t feel away if you’re like, oh, I can relate to that. That’s great. You can relate to that. That means that you are, there’s a level of self-awareness becomes what are you going to do about it now? And so we’ve all been through bad breakups. We’ve all been, yeah. Awkward situations with our friends, we’ve all been things the question becomes, are you going to verbalize Are you going to set new boundaries? Are you going to practice new habits that you weren’t doing? So when you got into that place where you’re fed up with the You essentially start to debrief, which is just a And you’re trying to figure out where have And where do I want to go? And once you start asking those questions, that’s when I know Sometimes people just want to hear themselves talk. Some people just want to talk just to say that they Isn’t effective, didn’t go anywhere. And isn’t producing the outcome that they want. And so heart combos are the only conversations I And heart is an acronym for honest, elephant And in my personal opinion, if you are not having conversations or one of these five things, you’re probably not having It’s not a conversation that’s going to get you And typically. Conversations that are hard. Conversations are conversations that we perceive So we’re like, well, did you tell her, well, no. Well, why didn’t you tell her? Oh, so hard. Okay. Like, all right. Did you know that that didn’t go well this time, but next should probably set a boundary and said, you’re not comfortable It’s going to be so hard. You know, what did you, did you, did you confront your boss? No, that’s such a hard conversation. These things in our mind that are hard and difficult And they seem hard because it’s going to require a level Right. Right. And so the heart conversation is just you being honest, when Give the honest answer, not the, not the answer that wants to hear, not the answer that you usually give. If it’s not true in the moment, give the honest answer. If there’s an issue in the relationship or in addressed the elephant in the room, call it out. However, people don’t like to have those conversations or have about that thing that seems like larger than life. People don’t do that. They like to stay on the surface. They don’t like to rock the boat. They don’t, they don’t want to go into the deep end. They want to sit at the steps, like my daughter and Right? Like that’s not what we’re doing here, you know? And so that, that is, I think how a person turns the corner are either exposed to a side of them that they don’t They become distracted. In the way that they’re connecting with other people. And the question is when you see yourself for who you are, eyes to it and like, pretend that it’s not there, or are You know? And so that’s really, I think that for myself, Again, going back to your initial question for how I And again, I’ve had a lot of conversations And I just got tired of, I mean, I was, it was exhausting. I don’t know if anybody ever can relate to that, How

Cassandra: 15:33

is the weather anyway? You know, like,

KB: 15:36

like how’s that working out for you? Yes,

Cassandra: 15:39

that is, oh, how’s that working out for you? You did all these things. How’s that work?

KB: 15:44

How’s that working out for? You

Cassandra: 15:46

talk about heart combos though. So we’re talking to, let’s say we’re talking to brand new, like I don’t have all of them. I, you know, I’m a pretty good friend. I think there’s a thing that happens that we So that listeners have an action step. Cause you can’t, you can just dive into the heart combos and heart combos, but how beautiful are they going to be KB let’s

KB: 16:15

the conversations that you’re going to try to have,Cassandra: 16:17

it will be awful. You need practice and what’s the best way maybe to get practice.

KB: 16:24

Listen, the conversations are going to be rough. At first, probably anxiety inducing, like legit. You’re going to talk to yourself and be in your head And then you’re going to, you’re gonna, you’re going I’m doing it. And then you’re going to go. And everything that you thought would happen will not happen. And that could be a good thing or a bad thing. Like you could think that, oh, this is not going to go well. And the person’s like, oh my gosh. Yes, absolutely. I’m so glad that you said that like just water off a Duck’s Like, yeah. I wish you would have said it earlier. Like really. And you’re just like, why did I stress? I’ve almost died, almost killed myself, you know, over And it was the easiest conversation ever, but then situations where you’re going to be hopeful that the They’re going to understand. And next thing you know, they’ve completely flipped the know, Whenever you were bringing it to the table is your fault. And you’re selfish and this is, this was you. And it’s like, oh, I wasn’t prepared for that. And you’re going to feel completely betrayed. And, and the reality is in order to establish deep, relationships that you have to lean into vulnerability. Now, let me tell you a little. The key to deep, meaningful connections is vulnerability. But the formula for being egregiously hurt So like, if you think about the word vulnerability, the it means to wound a person is not vulnerable unless they are So whatever you think honorability is, if you can’t You might’ve been honest. You might’ve been okay. But you weren’t vulnerable. And the only way that deep, meaningful, intimate There’s no way around making those types of attachments with Okay. Now, I’m also saying in the same breath, that that is the be disappointed, to be hurt, to be taken advantage of. And so you have to make a decision every day and If deep, meaningful connection is a possibility and you think that in the beginning, you will probably leaning to It go wrong. I didn’t sign up for this. I just can’t. I am not here for this, but the, but the reality is in order people that are authentic and that are genuine, you And I’ll say this even after this, but People typically go into a relationship pretending to wants them to be or who they should be for the connection. And then the other person falls in love with that person, So then what happens is they just start creating acceptance for this person that you have shown them what Is that you think that you, the true you, the yourself is being accepted is being, is being embraced. So you let your guard down and you’re no longer pretending Well, what happens is now the other person is seeing And depending on the personality type, they’re like, who are you? I want the other person. I don’t like this. And so now you feel rejected. And let me tell you what is happening. You are being rejected, but the difference between you being you’ve invested six months, pretending is that the real Hurt more latent in the, in the ladder, right? It’s going to hurt more after you’ve invested. There’s been interest incurred. You both have been super intentional. You’ve cultivated intimacy. And now all that gets ripped apart because You know what I mean? You just show up on the front, end, the person. It’s their prerogative to say, I’d like you, I don’t like stake in it, you know, there, there are no, there’s no like It doesn’t, it doesn’t fill away. You know? I mean, I’m not saying that that the desire to connect Right. That’s my favorite part . And so it just explains the, the, that we feel when we don’t get the thing that we were hoping You are perfectly normal to feel that way. However, When it, it hurts more, it hurts more when you invested. And so all I’m suggesting is, as you’re thinking about vulnerability in order to attain deep, meaningful connections and that you think is it worth me not being vulnerable in order And then it falling apart later or. Completely, you know, like vulnerability is the only

Cassandra: 21:50

Part of it, a huge part of that, which And is knowing who, who you are for me. I was told all my childhood who I was and what I was like. And so as a 35 year old woman, I’m figuring, Like I didn’t, I didn’t have a favorite anything Cause I was like petrified to have a favorite anything. And so now I’m like, what colors do I like? You know, like, At my age. So part of that part, it’s all, it’s all this train It’s not something you listen to one podcast and It’s a, you got to get on board.

KB: 22:32

Absolutely. And you make a great point. You can not make sense of yourself in relationship If you can’t make sense of yourself, like you have to in order to know how you, I mean, in order to form healthy So let me just say that again. Clearly you have to be able to make sense of yourself before Okay, so you alone by yourself, understanding your narrative, are, how you got there again, where you want to go, what you All of, all of those things have to be solidified and up as your most authentic self, in a relationship So I go there, I agree wholeheartedly with what.

Cassandra: 23:21

I love it. KB, you are wonderful human. I’m so thankful for you. I’m so thankful for heart combos and all of the And for this time together,

KB: 23:31

Hey, I appreciate you. I really, really do thank you for elevating these types of think at the end of the day, I love the title of this space, Listen being mean. Okay. Can I just say this really quickly meeting, like the that statement in phrase gets such a bad rap. It’s such a bad rap. Like it’s like wrong. Like I just don’t want to be neat. I don’t want to be perceived as needy. I don’t want to come off as needy. It’s like, but you need, like, you do need, Of who you are. It’s a part of our makeup. It’s part of the way that we built. We form attachments with other people. If we were self-sufficient and didn’t need anybody, robots. So I love the fact that you are elevating this Right. And, and known, you know, and I think people need to know that You have something that you’re bringing to the table. So I love it needed to known as dope to me. I rock with it. I love it. I support it. And yeah, I’m excited to see where all this goes. So thank you for having me and for listening to math. Me get on my soap box

Cassandra: 24:51 KB’s friend tips on Instagram, or to learn more You can find links in the show notes or visit needed Thank you for helping KB to be needed and known until Bye.

How to Build One Strong Relationship with Your Opposite

Opposites attract, but how do they work?

For the longest time, my husband thought I was a Debbie Downer trying to ruin his dreams and I thought he was a perfectionist jerk. By learning more about our character strengths, we discovered our potential. I am Deliberative — this means I like to think through everything that could go wrong in a goal and have a plan. My husband is a Maximizer and wants to make the most out of Every. Single. Thing. Instead of letting these differences push up apart, we team up on every adventure in life like house buying (I make sure we can afford it, he picks the best we can afford) and vacation planning (I pack the bags, he dreams up the magic)

In this episode, I’m introducing you to Dr. Angela Robles. Angela is Curriculum Specialist of Sport Management and Assistant Professor, Department of Kinesiology at Azusa Pacific University. She has pioneered research in strengths-based athletics and applied that insight into her own relationship. She and her husband, David, have used their strengths and some honest conversations to find more joy.
The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.

Resources

Forza Institute (Angela’s Company)

Email Angela

Transcript

Background

Cassandra: [00:00:00] Hey friend, it’s Cassandra, and this is needed and known the podcast where we discover how to transform average moments into a great life by learning, growing, and becoming better humans together. I interview amazing people. Who’ve improved their communication relationships and perspectives in unique ways.

On this episode, I’m interviewing Angela. Dr. Angela Robles is a curriculum specialist of sports management and assistant professor in the department of kinesiology at Azusa Pacific university. She’s a former pitcher for the university of Notre Dame softball team, and is coached at collegiate levels.

She’s pioneered research in strengths based athletics and applied that insight into our own relationship. But what I think Angela is needed and known for. Is her ability to be flexible with her spouse. I’m excited for you to hear about their journey together and to hear how opposites can really make a great hi Angela.

I am so glad that you could join us today to kind of talk about. What’s happened in your life. What’s changed in your life and impart your knowledge and your wisdom to my listeners. Tell us about your life and your career before becoming a mother

Angela: [00:01:21] oh, right.

It’s like, is there a before you can even remember it. It’s like, oh, what did I have a life before then? Yes. So I guess the best way I can share it was I grew up in long beach, California full circle we’re back here now, which is like really wonderful. But I was a full scholarship athlete at Notre Dame.

I played college sports for four years, played overseas for a bit coached in college. Did some grad school got married about 15 years ago. And I want to say about two years after David and I were married, we had, I started having kids. So I had Riley and Reese and juggling all of that while finishing, finishing grad school and moving a ton of times as you know.

So yeah.

Cassandra: [00:02:08] So you basically had an entire life. I mean, I, we all had different varying degrees, but you truly had an entire life and career in your truck.

Angela: [00:02:19] Yeah, I feel like no, I think I was really fortunate to have done so many things and checked so many things off of my like bucket list, I guess on, even before I probably met David and, you know dating and really got married and starting a family, I feel like I’m trying to think.

I think I was about 26 when, when we got married. So I feel like, yeah, from, from starting college, about 17 or 18 to 26, there was a lot of that. I think that happened during that time. And yeah, and I think all the goals and things that I would have loved to have had accomplished, I feel like I was really grateful and fortunate to have done a lot of those things prior to starting a family.

Cassandra: [00:02:56] That’s wonderful. As we go on, we’re going to talk about strengths a little bit. And so I want to give the listeners a little bit of context, cause I know. A little about strengths. I know, you know, a lot being a coach and you don’t need to know anything about StrengthsFinder specifically, but just having to listen.

But just having some context for the listeners. Can you tell us, when did you learn about strengths and what are strengths? What does that even mean?

Angela: [00:03:22] Sure. Yeah. So part of that journey, I think of like playing college sports and then playing professionally a little bit and then moving into coaching in college, I’ve always been really fascinated with how teams work and how, especially in athletics and in sports.

I think we kind of like live and die based on the health of our team. And so I’ve just been really. Always was really curious about like what makes teams function? What makes them healthy? What makes them positive? And as I started my graduate work, as I started my doctoral program, I believe it was about 2002.

They had us as part of our orientation takes StrengthsFinder. And so now it’s actually called Clifton strengths. But they did that just to sort of help us kind of have a little bit more self-awareness and really think about. What are some of the innate talents and strengths that we have in us that could potentially help us through our graduate program.

And as soon as I took the assessment, again, for people who are maybe not familiar with it, it’s an online assessment. It takes about 40 minutes or so. And then you really learn your top five strengths, right? So for me learning those really. Very easy words, but really recognizable words, such as like being an includer and empathy and positivity and belief.

And then there’s one called woo, which I thought, well, what does that mean? Right. But winning others over and just this idea for me of affirming maybe the traits or the times that I had that were more relational, I felt like were really helpful for me. As I looked back on my experience as an athlete and always was really curious about why I didn’t resonate.

Being an athlete who wanted to like throw my glove when I was mad or, you know, really I was more competitive and more compelled in sports and to play hard and to be successful because I really genuinely loved being part of a team. And so I think in learning what my strengths were at that doctorate program helped me I guess really kind of identify what it was that I wanted to study and what it was I wanted to research.

So being able to bridge that into a doctoral program, so this idea of strengths, but then also tying that back with teamwork and looking at wouldn’t it be cool to do this with sport teams, right. And to be able to really give teams and coaches the tools to know what their athletes are made of. I thought I was always really interested in what that would look like.

And so, so learning strengths back in 2002, and then really investing in it through my doctoral program. Doing my dissertation work on it. And then since then really being able to kind of utilize that effect that more and doing some team building has always been really such a, such a gift in such an honor.

I feel like to do that for the last number of years.

Cassandra: [00:05:51] How long was it after you did that, that you had David take his assessment.

Angela: [00:05:58] Oh, gosh, I want to say probably when I met him, honestly, it’s like, I think maybe it was when we were in our dating. So I think we met in like 2003, 2004, and I think I was so fired up about just this idea of strength and the self-discovery and self-awareness I think as we were dating, it probably came up in conversation that these were things I was really interested in studying.

And as we kind of, you know, as you do, when you date, you sort of share your stories. And things that you’re passionate about and interested in, and I said, you should really look at taking this assessment. Right. And so he took it. And I think that actually helped us as I progress in my doctoral program and ended up spending so many years really looking at what strengths is, it was so great that in the very beginning, he was on the same page with some of the language.

And we can kind of talk a little bit about our differences and. Why we do what we do, why we think what we think. And I think that was a really helpful tool for us. Not for him just to understand what I was studying and spending all my time doing, but for us to really actually use it in real life, too, outside of school for me.

So yeah, I think he took it in like 2003, 2004, maybe. Wow.

Cassandra: [00:07:04] So, and you’ve been married for 15 years, so. It’s definitely dating

Angela: [00:07:09] 16. Yeah.

Cassandra: [00:07:12] You know, your strengths and you know, his strengths. And how, how did that help you? Cause you are, like you said, What you described or your strengths. And what I know about them is that those are really like people and relational.

And so that’s why throwing your glove on the ground. Doesn’t do anything. And now I’m, I’m that way, like, I’m not, I get competitive, we play a board game. I’m definitely going to win. But like, and I like to trash talk a little, but like, I’m not going to like throw you, get you play with those people who are like going to throw the game across the room if they lose.

Angela: [00:07:42] Right. Right.

Cassandra: [00:07:43] And I tend to be very relational as well, which you had no idea about, but

which is why we’re easily connect. Yeah,

absolutely. Absolutely. So knowing that about yourself as you transitioned from being an athlete and to being a mother how did that, how did that work for you knowing those strengths about your.

Yeah. Sure. So, so again, I think it really helped David Midas in our marriage and kind of to understand what our differences were. But I think as we started our family and helped us to really Well, and again, it’s never really easy, right? Like, so once you kind of start figuring out your parenting role, then your roles in marriage or in relationships, I think that’s always a challenge, no matter how many tools you have.

But I think for us, I think for us learning Kind of what these different strengths are. It helped us sort of, I don’t know, I’m not a very strategic person, but it helped us kind of strategize a bit more on like, as we approach parenting as our kids get older, like what role are we going to play? And who’s going to take care of what roles and responsibilities so that I think so we give each other space to really live in the places that we most enjoy, but also we don’t put that same expectation or burden on each other to function.

The way the other does, if that makes sense. So I, I don’t expect him to be super, highly relational because I know his strengths. I know he’s just not always wired like that. He’s going to be much more of the planner and if there’s a problem, or even as a, as a parent, if there’s an issue with the kids, we’re all set and I’ll like cry.

If they cry and I’ll be excited that they are excited and I’ll kind of ride the wave of the emotion with them. He’s going to end the moment and say, well, how do I fix that? Or what’s our next step? And so I think I think for me learning my strengths, even as a mom helped me realize the blind spots that I had and where I really needed to give space for for him to kind of step into and kind of take on those.

Parenting roles that I really followed were not in my sweet spot, if that makes sense. So I think that kind of helped us kind of plan out, like what are, which would be, you know, as we start raising kids. Cause we didn’t know what we were doing. Nobody does. Right. You leave the hospital. Who’s going to do this for me, you know, I’m going to use anyone’s my dog, you know, so I think that, I think that was helpful for us.

And there, it’s kind of been fun where we look at our kids and we kind of start guessing like the strengths that they have. Right. And so how do we leave them space to really thrive, but also how do we kind of guide them or coach them in areas that we feel like they, you know, can really do great in or can really grow in.

That’s so good. And you know, you know, the cliche is it’s all about communication and the only reason that married people. Who have been married for awhile? Say that it’s all about communication is because it’s all about communication. I feel like knowing each other’s strengths is just like that added component.

It helps to fill in that gap of why do you do things that way? Why the, why do you make it happen? Like why, why is that so important to you? Because for David. Having the relational part isn’t is important. Of course it’s important to all of us, but like it’s way more important to you or like being empathetic as is something that happens to you.

And whereas he’s like, I just need to solve this problem and knowing that kind of smooth, would you say that like smooth, that, that vibe between you with time and place?

Angela: [00:11:00] Yeah, for sure. And I think it just gave us more like grace with each other too. And I have to say, cause I, I realized that you know, your friends and people who are gonna listen to this conversation, I always, I always assume like, oh, they’ll know who David is, but I should probably kind of paint the picture a little bit too, about how different we really are So one of the things that I’ve always been really I think mindful about, or that he and I both have been very mindful about it is we come from such different backgrounds. So culturally, we come from totally different places, right? So his parents are from Mexico. His mom still doesn’t speak English.

Right. So he came from a very traditional Mexican home and I came from a very. Traditional kind of white middle-class family, right? My dad was in the Marine Corps and, you know, we just come from these very different cultural backgrounds, I think. Then also with my sport background, there’s a different language and norms and expectations and experience that you have as a college athlete.

That. I think sometimes I, I wonder like, oh, if I would’ve married somebody who was an athlete, just like me, would we have the same issues or problems or would we, you know, it’d be a little bit easier in some ways. And like him, you know, he’s a little bit more, you know, into music and he’s a thinker and he, you know, so we just have these different personalities, but we also have different cultural backgrounds and family dynamics.

And so I think all of those things kind of set you up for either this. Cool like exciting relationship, but also very challenging relationship. And so I think for me, when I look at strengths that has been really helpful in areas that were like, We were so different that it just gave us a place to talk about some of those differences through this language of strength that helped open doors to all of these other differences that we already knew existed.

So yeah, so I think just the layers of how different we already were that the strength piece was a really helpful tool for us. Cause we didn’t start in the same way. You know what I mean? I

Cassandra: [00:12:51] do. I do. And I think you, not only did you, you didn’t start it in the same place, but you’ve really traveled through different places together as well.

And so you know, I know that you ha you’ve had friends wherever you’ve gone because you, somebody like Angela can’t help, but have friends, frankly. So but those friends, those friends may have created emotional support in the moment, but they weren’t. Lifelong friends in the way that a lot of people think of lifelong friends like you and I we’ve talked about this.

Like we’re lifelong friends, but I, I haven’t seen Angela in person in a very long time, honestly, but we talk, I mean, years will go by and then we reconnect as if nothing happened. Not because we’re ghosting each other or whatever the slang is this week, but like, just because that’s life and we accept that about each other and we’re already so similar that we just reconnect and pick back up.

Meanwhile, Angela’s living her life, with David. Who’s very different from her. Can you share a little bit more about that, how that’s

developed?

Angela: [00:13:54] So I think well part of it is that we just moved from match, right? So with David’s job, and that was the ebb and flow for me of like, you know, the balancing being a mom, but also balancing the professional and kind of what my.

Work and home life would look like, but also being a support to him as he worked in church work for a really long time. So we moved, I think we counted like eight different times and 10 years or whatever that was. So I felt like every time we’d settled, we kind of kind of moved. And so even if it was in the.

City, you know, just even moving neighborhoods or whatever that look like. We just, we always say we were kind of like the, you know, just feels like we get settled and then we’d kind of go somewhere else. And we just, we just enjoyed, like, this life has kind of like, you know, moving when our kids were little, but that was also brought on a big challenge of trying to find.

Okay. Where do you find your community and really, where do you anchor in these friendships and, and, you know, and, and, and we lived for a number of years, at least two hours from our family. And so we didn’t really have a lot of the family support. So as we were raising, learning how to be married, but also raising our young kids it was very lonely, I think, in terms of like, feeling like exhausted and trying to.

These roles and the moving and all those things were challenging on top of just how different we already were and what we thought about how parenting should look like or how our job should look like, or even really the traditional male and female roles. Right. Like we, we kind of were navigating a lot of that.

So yeah. So I think, I think that, you know, as I look back I’m like that was, it was really a roller coaster of. Trying to figure out what we were doing, but also like the moving and changing friendships a lot. And wherever we moved, you know, was always really a challenge, but it anchored us to kind of depend on each other, which I think was really really kinda maybe the silver lining of it.

Cassandra: [00:15:36] Yeah.

Yeah. Well, when we, when I met you 10, maybe 10 years ago, does that sound right?

Angela: [00:15:44] I think so. That sounds right. maybe like 2010, somewhere around,

got

Cassandra: [00:15:49] 10 years. That’s crazy. When I met you you were doing strengths coaching and you were also, I think you were teaching. Were you teaching at that time, you really were taking early, were working, working mom, like part-time working right.

Angela: [00:16:04] Yeah. I always joke that I don’t feel like I had, like I had one foot in each world, so I never really settled in either one. That’s where that I think the isolation or feeling lonely kind of came in. Right. Would teach adjunct for bypass adjunct for, I think about 15 years before I did full-time faculty work and teaching at the college level and I did part-time, you know, consulting and things like that.

But my full time job then was being home with our girls. And then we joked David and I would high five in the driveway. Right. So if I had a coaching opportunity or a teaching opportunity, he would come home. And as soon as he pulled up in the drive and started walking in, I would walk out and we’d high five and change.

Of course. Right. So then I go work and then he’s home and three to that for a really long time, really long time. But but yeah, I never felt like I really did anything really full-time with work until about the last three years. My primary job really was being at home and then finding creative time to do all these other professional, you know,

opportunities.

Right.

Cassandra: [00:16:58] So you were still at home and then what was happening with them?

Angela: [00:17:04] Yeah. So I want to say about Kubrick working full time until about two years ago, maybe I think.

And so, as we kind of like, as our kids got older, we started feeling this natural shift of like, You know, they’re getting a little bit more independent. There’s a little bit more freedom and, and what we can take on and what we can do. So I think as his work kind of started to wind down a little bit, I was able to step into really dreaming about things that I wanted to do.

And so yeah, it was, maybe it was right when I was turning 40, I guess. So maybe 39, 40. I took a full time faculty role at a university and yeah. I place that again. I had been teaching for 15 years part-time so that was really exciting to kind of, and using the consulting and the strengths is all part of building into being able to do that job.

And so as we kind of naturally made the shift, I think when I started working full time, it gave him some space to really think about what it was that he wanted to do. And so Super cool thing. He knew that being able to go do a culinary degree program at a community college and, you know, just being able to kind of dream a little bit more about what he wants to do in his mid forties.

And I think you talked about in the beginning, in my, you know early twenties kind of checking off all these boxes of things that I felt like I was really excited, these bucket list things to do. And then that kind of beautiful, but lonely stretch, right. Of having kids and kind of raising the kids and doing work part-time for so many years.

And then now really anchoring in this idea of like, okay, now I’m 40. And now my career is actually just starting. And so it feels like a very non-traditional path, but I think this ebb and flow with David Naya. Turn it is has been a really interesting, I guess, like I said, not typical and not traditional kind of approach to how we’re raising our family and how we’re navigating both of us doing what we’re passionate about without compromising the ideal of really wanting to be consistent and like really available for our kids.

Cassandra: [00:18:59] Hmm, like rewritten the narrative of the norms that you grew up with and more so really found a rhythm that works for your family. So not worrying so much about what people will think, but really in honing in on your strengths and honing in on how each of you operate kind of leaning towards what you’re each good at and in being so different, created this unified relationship that allows each of you to do what you do best.

Would you say that. What’s happened.

Angela: [00:19:29] Yeah, I think so. I think so for sure. I think that you know, I look at, I look at the strength piece of like the tool of kind of like being able to commute. Like you were talking about communication. I think that has opened the door for us to communicate and just know each other a little bit better, but I think Yeah.

I just feel like it, I love what you said about rewriting the narrative. I think that is to me, like I’m in a, hold on. So you said that because it had such a beautiful description out of the permission and feel like we kind of gave ourselves, even in our early forties, mid forties to kind of say like, is this really what we want to do?

Are we really in spaces that we feel like this is our calling for our life and kind of the people we want to be in. So I think the willingness. To kind of like take those risks and make those changes. And I know it sounds like such a simple thing, but really like take turns with each other on being able to like lean in.

So like our, our greatest areas of like passion and what our kind of careers could look like. I think I don’t know, it’s been really fun, but I think you know, we were even talking about it earlier today. He and I about like, how, how. I see, I don’t know what the right word would be. I think it would be a lack of joy and a lack of like passion, if we would have just stayed where we were and, and kept doing what we were doing five years ago or 10 years ago, and stayed in our same roles and stayed in our same expectations.

And so the risk of like making those changes and kind of taking turns, I think now we’re just like, we’re really happy. Like, you know, we don’t have. Millions of dollars in fancy cars. You know what I mean? So there’s a cost of, of, of taking those turns and doing those things that way. But at the same time, like there’s such a fulfillment, I’ve being able to feel like we’re supporting each other and we each can have these moments.

I’ve I don’t know, like who’s going to have responsibility really for the home, but also who’s going to have permission to really lean into their area of, you know, their area of passion with what they want to do with their life and their career. Does that make sense a little bit?

Cassandra: [00:21:18] It does make sense. I am interested in what, how those conversations came up.

I know, obviously you’d already been married for nearly 15 years at that point. So it is a little different than maybe if somebody is listening and they’re still dating or they’re in the early states, the early years of marriage that are just their own, they really do have their own category. But can you unpack some of those conversations with just the questions that you were asking yourselves to get to where you are?

Angela: [00:21:46] Y. Yeah, I think Y I think probably the biggest question we could have asked is if we were willing to look at like, and I’m hoping this will make sense, but if we can look at these like traditional. Kind of society roles that we have for like the male and the female that has been on the wife, like this is what you’re supposed to do, and this is what I’m supposed to do.

Like the, the biggest conversation we’ve ever had is if we’re willing to look outside of those expectations and if we’re going to be okay with that, you know what I mean? So when we go to buy or lease a car, like I’ll sit down and I love that stuff. So I will be the negotiator, even though the you know, the car sales and we will look at David because he’s a male and that he’ll say, okay, serve all dah, dah, dah.

And we’ll be halfway through the conversation. And then David will say, want me to take the kids? And you can go ahead and finish with her because I’m the one that makes those decisions. Right? So is that okay for us to do that? Right? Like, is it okay for him to really lead into the idea that he loves the cooking and he loves the grocery shopping?

And so I think our traditional gender roles, I think a big conversation with us was are, is there permission for us to really. Kind of rewrite what we think this should look like, you know, and what the norm should look like. And I think and that’s been really healthy for our kids too. It’s been really healthy for our girls to grow up and see their dad do things that maybe somebody thinks, well, mom should do that.

You know? And so I think that that has been very empowering. I think even for me and our relationship to really like go and do everything that I can do, but also empowering for him too, to feel like there’s space for him. And. I don’t know, in the parenting roles with our girls, that I think that he is really good at that.

Maybe somebody wouldn’t think a dad would do. You know, I don’t know. I think rewriting those gender narratives, I think, has been really, really important for us. That’s why the biggest conversation for us that has really led us to get to where we are right now, you know, we’re still figuring it out for sure.

But that was it. That was a big conversation for us is trying to figure out what that, what that could look like because in our families, the hierarchy and the structure looks different than what we’re kind of trying to create, you know?

Cassandra: [00:23:49] Yeah. I think that’s so, it’s so great that you feeling safe in your relationship and feeling safe in your conversations that you’ve gotten to a place where you’re like, we’re good.

We’re good with where we’re at. And we’re moving forward. We’re each moving forward in our own ways and supporting each other. And I think honestly, it’s a B it’s beautiful because it’s like, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter to you if David’s picking them up or dropping them off. You know, whatever event they’re going to instead of

Angela: [00:24:22] mom and yeah.

And so then I think, and I think this idea of taking turns is really helpful for us. So when the kids were little, like I always was, you know, doing homework with them in the room, you know, helping out with the room, mom, staff and things like that. But it’s been really, really cool to see now where, you know, On the PTA, like David’s only PTA, right.

You know, like I’m not the one who’s doing the, the school craft and maybe it’s like, he’s doing that. And so I think and it’s really, I think, healthy for our girls to see you know, they’ll look around and they see like their dad is really intentional with doing some of those things with school or with whatever.

And so I think, but again, that has created his willingness to do that has created a lot of space for me to really move forward and Kind of really now being more primary and what our family is doing in terms of like job wise and things like that. But, but there, the idea of us, I kind of, like I said, the ebb and flow of that, and kind of through the years that kind of like these roles shifting, I guess it’s just more being flexible with, with what roles we’re taking in parenting and you know, who’s going to do what and what their work.

I don’t know. There’s not really like a blueprint for it, but, but it’s been really, yeah, it’s been really cool lately though, to see how much. Involved and invested in so many different parenting capacities that now allows me to do some other things like, you know, work-wise or creatively. So, and again, I think that our strengths line up with that right.

Allows us to kind of talk about what brings us joy and how do we do those things while together.

Cassandra: [00:25:50] And then David can draw-up the plan for that for ideas for execution.

What advice do you have for people that are facing just consistent dissatisfaction with their career, but they feel like they’re too old or not that I think you’re old, cause you’re like literally just a few years older than me.

Or, you know, there, there are some cultural norms that are holding them back there’s they have some sort of limiting belief about what’s going on. Right. What advice do you have for them and how could they know when it’s time to change?

Angela: [00:26:23] Yeah, that’s a really good question. I think I think looking at like what really brings you joy and fulfillment and like, if we’re going to be really honest, like, I’ll be really honest with you.

I think it, I think it also comes down to the fact of. Like he, and I even talked about the fact that like, we had this really small moment of time where we were both working full time. I can be like a six month period. Right. Because the kids were in school long enough, we were able to navigate it. And I’m like, oh, this is what this feels like.

This is amazing. Right. And it just didn’t. Trust where he, you know, it w it made more sense for me to do the full-time in that moment and for him to take a little bit of a step back. So we really were able to like, be at the drop-off and the pick-up like, we, it didn’t work for us to both do it at the same time, long term.

And so I think that the honest conversation for ball I would say is that it depends on if someone’s really willing to say, are you willing to. Have, you know, the one current, instead of two, are you willing to rent instead of own? Are you like, those were sacrifices that we knew we were going to make.

We live in Southern California. We’re not going to buy a house right now. Like we’re just not going to do that. But, but for us, the value. Of our time and the value of really what we wanted our family to look like was worth balancing out. Like, do we really have joy in what we’re doing with our jobs and the amount of work that we’re doing or how restructuring our family?

So I think the honest conversation. You know, being able to say like, this is what you’re doing, bringing you joy, but also like, are you willing to risk some of the stability or I mean, being responsible for sure, but also like saying, you know what I mean? Like, is it, well, are you willing then to say like, Hey, we’re going to kind of slow down on financially then because it’s going to work for us.

And I think we’ve had greater joy being in areas that we love what we do. We’re passionate about our jobs. We love being available, our kids. But knowing like the compromise of that is that we’re not gonna. We’ll have these great big full-time jobs and we’re okay with that. That’s not, that’s not always the case for everyone, but for us, that was, that was a decision we made together to say, we choose joy and we choose kind of what we’re doing for our family.

And that, that was, that was kind of worth that idea of like, let’s take the risk and pivot and, you know, make a career change. If you need to do that or, you know, decide what’s really going to bring you joy and lean into that in that moment.

Cassandra: [00:28:39] So, what I hear you saying is really it’s about balancing the joy with the cost.

So that could, it could be monetary. It could be time. It could be, whatever it is is, is the joy worth the cost. And for you, it is, and it might not be for everybody. It might be worth you saying owning a home is a dream that you have, and that requires you to work. Full-time in a job that isn’t the best job but it’s really well paying.

Then you have to kind of balance that is that. Are you putting a timeline on it or a goal on it or. Sticking it out thing, you know, like, okay, once I have enough for my down payment, then I’m going to get the house and I’ll move on. So yeah. Yeah. And

Angela: [00:29:21] there’s no, yeah, totally. And there’s no, and like I said, there’s no judgment for me on like, you know, however people choose to do it for us.

I think that was just the choice that we made and especially geographically too, right. Like Southern California is a really. Task where we’re on the border of orange county and LA county. So this is a tough place to live if you don’t have two full-time working people. But but again, that was like, as you were asking the question about like what, you know, kind of those hard conversations.

I think we both had to be on the same page with that. And because we were both on the same page, it made those choices very easy. and I will tell you it’s pretty good. It’s pretty incredible to see someone in their mid forties. Like I look at David and go, he’s going to make a total career shift at 45, 46 years old.

And I’m so proud of him for doing that because I don’t think, I don’t think people always take the risk and take the time to do that. But I, I don’t know. I just feel like I that’s, that’s what I wanted to give him is just this like encouragement and permission to say like, oh my gosh, what is it that you want to do?

And I don’t know. And I just think that has brought us so much more, enjoy that. I dunno, kind of sticking maybe with wherever you’re at and it rolls that we were out forever. I don’t know that that would have been as fulfilling.

Cassandra: [00:30:29] That’s so good. That’s so good. I think that’s the perfect place to wrap up because that is, it is doing it.

We’re doing it to support each other. And you already, you felt like you, you did that. Like you’re in a place where you can kind of proceed with your career. It’s just, it’s all balancing out and it doesn’t look like. The way that we would expect it to look and that’s okay, because there’s so much joy in it.

So I am so proud of you and I’m so happy for you and David. Yeah. Following your journey. Thank you for sharing the intimate details.

Thank you. Well, I love you and I appreciate you and thank you for doing this and having the conversation

On Needed and known. We talk a lot about knowing yourself and I think knowing your strengths can just add to that big picture of who you are for the longest time.

I thought I was a Debbie downer and my husband would just to protect. One of my strengths is deliberation, which means I have to think of every possible blocker. And my husband is a maximizer who focuses on making everything excellent and suburb by tapping into our strengths and being aware of the downsides of them.

We’ve been able to make the most of our relationship. If you’re interested in knowing more about your. Or in getting coached by Angela and David visit needed and known.com/podcast. Or check the show notes for how to connect with them until you need me next time. Bye.

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How to Approach Someone With One Arm

“Mommy, why does that lady only have one arm?”

In this episode, Sarah shares about why having one arm doesn’t feel like a disability to her. She’ll share about her successful youth pitching history and a shocking conversation with a coach that spurred her into toxic positivity. We will talk about a lesson she learned by sharing her story. And then she’ll give practical and personal advice to my embarrassing question above.

Sarah and I met at work but really got to know each other preparing for a Ted-Talk-like event as we shared a coach. She has sparkling blue eyes, beautiful brown hair, and an arm that ends at her elbow.
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The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.

Resources

Sarah’s Youtube Channel

Transcript

How She Came to Have One Arm

Cassandra: [00:00:00] Hey friend, it’s Cassandra, and this is needed and known the podcast where we discover how to transform average moments into a great life by learning, growing, and becoming better humans together. I interview amazing people who could improve their communication, relationships and perspectives. In unique ways on this episode, I’m introducing you to my friend, Sarah.

She has sparkling blue eyes and wavy brown shoulder length hair, a dazzling smile, and her right arm ends at her elbow. Hey Sarah. Welcome to need it and known. Hi, thank you so much for joining me. I think that your story is so neat and unique, so we would love to hear the story of how you came to have one arm.

Sarah: [00:00:46] Okay. The story of how I came to have one arm is not very exciting, unfortunately, or fortunately I did, I did my arm and a tray magic accident or anything like that. I was just born without it. They don’t know what caused it. But my parents didn’t find out until I was born because. Unfortunately back then, however long ago that was they, the ultrasounds weren’t all that great.

So they really had no idea until I was born. I think my favorite. One of my favorite things about my entire story is the fact that my grandfather also only has one arm. He is my dad’s dad and he lost his, when he was, I think he was 18 or 19. And so my, my dad grew up around that and yes, it was a surprise when I was born, but it was something that he had seen his whole life.

And so I really. We my whole family, we feel like God really prepared him to be able to raise a child that was missing a limb because of my grandpa’s experience.

Cassandra: [00:02:03] That’s awesome. I think that’s such a cool and unique thing in your family. So it wasn’t because of an accident. How is it different from a traumatic loss based on what you’ve observed from other people or what you’ve heard

Sarah: [00:02:14] or, yeah, I, I feel like what makes it so different is that it’s all I’ve ever known. I just like what I always say, especially to little kids, or if people ask me about it. I think of having one hand, the way that you think of having two hands, you don’t, you don’t really think about it. It’s it’s just part of who you are. And so, as it, as a kid, that was a really interesting place to be in because to me it was completely normal. It didn’t prevent me from doing anything, but the people around me looked at me differently, or I thought that they looked at me differently. They may not have been, but I had that in my head that, oh, they’re noticing it. They don’t think that I’m as capable as they are.

So it was. It was just a very, like you said, unique experience because I’m technically considered a congenial amputee, but I, I didn’t lose it. So people always assume that I, that I did lose it. So it just, it made for a very interesting childhood.

Cassandra: [00:03:27] Well, because you’re not missing anything because you don’t no, that that would be like, if we met other people who had, you know, we met, suddenly met a whole group of people we’d never met before, who that had three arms and they were like, oh, you were missing your third arm. And we’re were like, no, I don’t. I never had that. I don’t think I, I mean, I could have used it, but

Sarah: [00:03:48] that that’s exactly what I I have said for years is that it’s, it’s that same mentality of, if you were to come across somebody who had you know, more arms than to that person would, would they look at you and they’d say, oh, how do you, how do you live your life with two hands? And you would say, just like everybody else, it’s not that hard because it’s all you’ve ever known. So it definitely It’s, it’s just a, it’s an interesting perspective that as a kid, I wasn’t necessarily grateful for all the time, but as an adult, I know that, that absolutely like shaped me into who I am.

Cassandra: [00:04:28] Absolutely. I growing up, I had big lips. Which I don’t feel like, I feel like they’re kind of normal lips now, but, and, and always feeling like everybody’s staring at me all the time. And even when I look at pictures, I’m like, they were just, they were just on your face. Like they’re not, it’s not that big a deal.

So I think that’s part of, that’s just maturity, but it’s good to hear that. I think it’s good for any younger listeners to hear, like nobody, nobody actually sees it.

Sarah: [00:04:55] Exactly. I think that’s. Every single person has something about themselves that they’re insecure about, or they think everybody is noticing.

And mine was really out there for the world to see, like right away. And I had to, I had to overcome that and learn how to just deal with it, that I was different. And I was never, I wasn’t ever going to just suddenly grow an arm. So. I had to figure out how to accept that and love myself despite being different.

Prosthetics

Cassandra: [00:05:29] Right. We talked about we’ve talked about offline your prosthesis. Are you willing to share that story or prosthetic story? Cause I’m sure that’s what people think. I feel like that’s the first thing that people think. Well, why didn’t she just get a prosthetic arm? How’d that go, Sarah?

Sarah: [00:05:46] Yeah, I actually did have a prosthesis for the first 12 to 13 years of my life.

I was, my mom is really proud of this fact for some reason, but I was the youngest person to ever receive a prosthetic arm in the state of Indiana. They wanted me to have a, an arm to help me learn how to crawl and. They, my mom says that they brought out a prosthesis to show her, and it was the kind that I don’t even know if they make these anymore, but there was a claw at the end of it.

Those were a thing back at, back in the eighties. But my mom says that she saw it and started bawling and said, my baby’s not going to have a club or I can’t, but they were able to get me a prosthesis that was more resembled, more of an actual hand. And I actually have it stuffed away in a closet here somewhere, which I think is really funny, but there’s like an arm there’s arms in my closet.

It’s really. Tiny time I’ve had like at work in the past, they’ve done that kind of like team building activity show and tell no one will beat my creepy little. Does

Cassandra: [00:07:10] look like that’s fantastic. It looks like a dollar

Sarah: [00:07:13] digital. Yeah, that’s crazy.

Cassandra: [00:07:17] Cause I think grown what? Well, like grown ones, like adult ones, or even older kids look like mannequin arms or something like that, but you’re right.

A small,

Sarah: [00:07:29] oh yeah. That’s exactly what it looks like. That’s so cute. Cute and creepy, you know, creepy.

A Coach’s Discouragement

Cassandra: [00:07:38] So we’ve talked a lot about the fun stuff. But not everything was always smooth sailing. Can you talk

Sarah: [00:07:45] about that? Yeah, I, I grew up in Indiana. I was around the same kids for, for those first 16 years.

And I played softball, which was really, I’m so grateful that I had that outlet because it was. My way of showing the world and building confidence in myself and showing myself that I really was just as capable as everybody else. And it was most of the time it was a non-issue. And going back to the Prosthesis.

That’s ultimately the reason why I stopped wearing one because every day I’d have practice and I’d have to take my arm off and put it in my coach’s office or in my locker, I realized that it was purely for like like aesthetics. It was not, for me, it was just for everybody else. It was uncomfortable.

It was just pointless for me to wear it. So I did stop wearing one when I was 12, because of that. But. I, I would say the, lack of confidence that I really struggled with as a kid that was that was really tough. And there were a few instances, a few events in my life that really added to that.

And I can think of one in particular. When I was in middle school, I was trying out for the school team for the first time. And I had been playing travel ball for a long time. I, every day I get home from school and for hours, I would pitch in my backyard. I had like this net that was set up, that would bounce back to me.

I would pitch into that for hours. And I spent so much time just honing my craft and trying to be the best that I could. And. I went to the tryouts and I did really well in my mind, I did really well. And on the final day of tryouts, they had each each athlete meet with the coaches and they would tell them, you know, which team you made or if you didn’t make the team at all.

And I, I can remember the experience like so vividly. I was so young. I mean, That was a long time ago, but I remember like the color of the bleachers and where exactly we were in the building. I mean, it’s just so vivid to me because I walk up to the coaches and they tell me that I did a great job, that I, they were impressed with my skills, but that I was too much of a liability for them to put me on the field.

Cassandra: [00:10:32] And how traumatic?

Sarah: [00:10:35] Oh, absolutely. I thinking back to it, like. It makes me emotional for that little girl, because it was, it was that first instance where somebody vocalized what I had feared. Somebody said out loud that I was less than, and that’s what I walked away feeling. And it was an adult. It was, you know, when you’re, when you’re that young, you, you trust and you believe in every adult that you meet.

You think that they all have your best interests at heart and they all care about you, which is unfortunately isn’t true. And they’re they’re people and they have their own self-interests and their own motives. And I, I didn’t understand that. And I remember walking out of there and just sobbing and talking to my dad.

And it was, I, it was the only time I’ve ever said this, but I said, Why me, why did God make me like this? And that, that, that particular experience completely shaped me into who I am, because I, I just learned so much from, I learned that you can you can be broken by things and you can allow yourself to feel hurt by people. There’s nothing wrong with feeling all of those emotions But you have to find a way to pull yourself out of it. Allow yourself to feel everything and move past it. Give yourself the time and then find a way to not, not let it. Push you off track and make you doubt yourself, doubt what you’re capable of.

And I went back the next year and I, I tried out again and I made the team and that was the only time that I was ever cut from a team because of my arm. But that is definitely something that has just stuck with me all these years,

Cassandra: [00:12:40] for sure. That’s, that’s so I think it’s so relatable, honestly, because everybody not, maybe not, maybe not everybody, I don’t know, but I feel like most people in my life have a moment like that, or many moments where thing that happened to them.

And like, this is the thing that sort of shook you. And I love, I love that because I think I love your, your kind of. Way of getting out of it because you have to I th I do think there’s a such thing as toxic positivity. So not to go too far, but like live in that, like, it’s okay to feel that pain.

It’s okay to feel about her. And then, and you don’t even have to fully let it go. Like, you can remember, you don’t have to forget that it ever happened, but just to let it push you forward, instead of holding you back, I think is really what you’re saying. Like

Sarah: [00:13:31] yep. Yeah, it’s interesting that you mentioned toxic positivity because that is something that as an adult, I’m really realizing that I struggle with that because I, I, I want to move past things so quickly and just get to the part where I feel strong and I feel empowered and feel like I can do anything.

And I, I sometimes move past the hurt too quickly. And I do think that it’s it’s because of those things that did happen as a kid that That caused me to have that mentality. And so I I’m learning that there’s a healthy balance. Like it’s absolutely okay to, to be a very positive person. But if you are feeling emotions like that deeply, like that’s a, that’s a trauma, like, like what it is like it’s okay to, to allow yourself to be, to be broken for a little bit.

Believe in when you started talking about like, I can remember the color of the bleachers. I mean, that is a traumatic memory. Like that is how traumatic memories I remember where things smelled like and what it felt like and what color everything was. And, and all the noises I could hear that is what traumatic memories are often made of…

Right, yeah.

Cassandra: [00:14:57] So, it was, it was traumatic But it happens. So I really appreciate you sharing that story.

Sarah: [00:15:04] Yeah.

Youtube Lessons

Cassandra: [00:15:05] I know it’s not active much anymore. But I love your YouTube channel and I love that you talked about all the things that you can do because Sarah has one arm and she does her nails and she does her hair and she does her makeup and is just a normal.

Woman in America doing all the things that need to be done. So we’ve talked a little bit about it, but how has that impacted you? Like sharing your stories?

Sarah: [00:15:34] Yeah. As a kid, I felt so alone in being one handed and what YouTube taught me. Is that there are so many people that are different. I mean, I, well, I mean, that’s dumb,

Cassandra: [00:15:56] but we don’t think that, we think everybody else is the same and we’re different. Right. So that’s, I think that’s totally valid.

Sarah: [00:16:01] Yeah. And what I’ve realized with even today, I haven’t posted a video in a couple of years, but I still get comments on a couple of my videos.

I’ve got one in particular. That’s about how to put your hair in a ponytail. One-handed and I. You get comments regularly from. Adults from kids and who are saying, oh, thank you. This is going to help me so much. I just broke my arm. I had a stroke 10 years ago and I don’t have the full use of one of my, one of my arms, all these different stories.

And none of them are, are my story. None of them are just somebody saying. Yeah, I was, I lost my arm 10 years ago and I, I’ve never been able to figure out how to do this. It’s, it’s tons of unique experiences and unique people that are coming in and they’re able to, to use, you know, my silly little hair tutorials.

Our experiences are what have shaped us and that is how God can use us by sharing what has happened in the past, what we’ve learned. And I think that we have to be able to learn from each other. That’s the reason why all of our experiences in all of our lives are so different so that we are able to come together and to learn from one another. And I don’t, I don’t think that I would have learned that if it weren’t for, for YouTube.

Cassandra: [00:17:30] Yeah. It’s this is the thing is you think about relationships or friendships, like potential friendships that don’t really go anywhere and like, Either often they didn’t learn about you or you didn’t really learn about them.

And it is really sharing our story is that connects us. Right? Because I am a two limbed person and you are a one limbed person. I mean, we’ve got four anyway, you know what I mean? And I’m handed, I’m a two handed person and so. I can’t relate to having to do my hair with one hand, but I can relate to, like, we talked about like being, being traumatized by growing up as a child with their hurtful words.

And so I think it’s those things that build relationships that bring us together and that make relationships strong. So I love that you are always willing to talk about your story and to share your story. And I think that. That is what makes you such a likable person, first of all.

Advice for Talking to Someone Who “Looks Different”

Cassandra: [18:24] But along those lines, so we have a lot of emotional maturity and things like that, but sometimes my four year old likes to point out things in public about other people. And so I would love your take on that. So let’s say we’re in the store together. And my four year old makes one of those inevitable comments, like about your limb, what is correct etiquette for me? What do I do?

Sarah: [00:18:48] In my opinion and I know that every, since everybody does have different stories, I know this may not be, you know, somebody just lost their arm. They may not feel comfortable with somebody coming up to them and asking them questions. But for me personally, what always hurt my feelings the most is when I would see a little kid pointing and their parents pull them away. And just being incredibly embarrassed, which is. A completely understandable reaction. As, as a parent, you don’t want your kid to hurt somebody else. And so you’re like, oh, I need to pull them away before the person hears, well, guess what, the person heard.

They already heard the damage is–not even damage–but it’s done.

It already happened. And if it came out of the, the words came out of the kid’s mouth or they’re pointing, or they’re saying, I think the best thing is for. The child to ask the question it’s completely okay for for a kid to come up to me and ask me what happened to my, to my arm.

And I’ve had, I’ve had that happen a few times in stores where. I’ll see a parent with their child and the kid will say what happened? And the parent will say, well, why don’t you ask her? And it leads to such a great conversation where I’m able to say, I think of it, like you have, think of having two hands and it’s just like, Somebody having blonde hair versus brown hair.

And then that makes the connection in the kid’s mind, no matter how young they are, they’re like, oh yeah, like I have red hair and Tommy has blonde and then they move on and they’re over it really quickly. And I think that that child will then, you know, if they come across a kid in their class that is in a wheelchair or has another physical difference that they’re going to be able to be kinder.

And hopefully not hurt. You know, somebody who is still trying to grow up and, and get comfortable with themselves. So personally for me, I think having the child asks the question is, is the best, best way to go.

Cassandra: [00:21:02] That’s good I like that a lot. I think it’s normalizing a human as what you’re doing really.

Like, it’s just a thing it’s just a different. Different attributes about a person. So I love that. Sarah, Sarah, thank you so much for chatting today. I think that that is a great place to wrap up. Just we’re all just people. We just look a little different in different ways, shapes and forms. So I am thankful for you and thankful for our time together, and I hope that you have a great day.

Sarah: [00:21:32] You too. Thanks for talking to me. This was really fun.

Cassandra: [00:21:36] When we meet someone who looks different from us, let’s choose to treat them as a fellow human, rather than feeling sorry for them or filling in their story. Thank you for helping Sarah and her limbs feel needed. Unknown. When I talk more between episodes or tell me all about your one limbs life, follow me on Instagram at needed and known for access.

To more information on this episode, go to neededandknown.com/podcast until you need me next time. Bye.

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cassandra

If no one else tells you, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

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Anxiety and Cancer and Friendship

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Anxiety and Cancer

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Where is the step-by-step guide to make friends as a grown-up?

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“Do you know your values?”

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This friendship kinda sucks.

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Opposites attract, but how do they work?

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“Mommy, why does that lady only have one arm?”

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How She Came to Have One Arm

Prosthetics

A Coach’s Discouragement

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Advice for Talking to Someone Who “Looks Different”

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