Needed & Known

The Podcast exploring extraordinary life stories

emotional intelligence

What Happens When You Actually Have Anxiety And Cancer?

Anxiety and Cancer

Sometimes those of us with anxiety think we have cancer. And then sometimes we actually do. And sometimes it makes the anxiety worse. Anxiety and cancer. I see a lot of learning opportunities here.

Today I’m introducing you to Courtney, who will share about her self-talk as she worked through some discomfort in her body, through her diagnosis, and shares about the cancer journey. This is episode ONE of TWO — Next week Courtney will give advice for how to get the right support for yourself as a patient and how to support someone through their cancer journey–what do they really need?
The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.

Subject Resources

Courtney’s blog

American Cancer Society

Transcript

Cassandra: [00:00:00] Hey friend, it’s Cassandra, and this is needed and known the podcast where we discover how to transform average moments into a great life by learning, growing, and becoming better humans together. I interview amazing people who have improved their communication relationships and perspectives in unique cancer.

The dread that word alone brings, but why, what does it mean? Whether you or someone you love has cancer or like me, you’re just wished someone would spell it out on this episode. And the next I’m introducing you to Courtney. What I love so much about Courtney she’s self-aware and she shares in detail how she responded to her body emotional needs and about how cancer impacted her anxiety.

And she tells us the details about her cancer experience and the next week’s episode. She’ll continue her story and share more about her support system. 

Hey Courtney, 

Courtney: [00:00:57] Hey, Cassandra.

Cassandra: [00:00:58] Thank you so much for joining us today. I  and I’ve been following your stories since the beginning, and I’ve known you since before that.

And so I’m so thankful to you for sharing this. If anybody has read the name to this episode, then they’ll know you had cancer. What were there any signs ahead of time that this was happening? 

There were signs. I don’t know if I recognize the signs and I will say that. Form of cancer is going to look a little different when it comes to science.

So I can only speak to mine.  But with that, with that said, I experienced  Tightness in my stomach, which I was secretly hoping was just that I was getting really great six pack apps. And I, I learned later on that, that’s not what that was, but I got tightness in my stomach. And so when I would ever work out and do certain moves where I’m laying on my stomach, maybe it’s a Cobra position or a few other ones.

I would notice that it was uncomfortable. So it was really just discovered. And that lasted for probably eight or nine months. I didn’t think much of it. I just assumed. Okay, well, you know, there’s just some sensitivity there.  Then I experienced back pain and I thought that was just due to, you know, working, working out a little too hard.

So I went to physical therapy  and really, so it was like back pain, stomach pain, and. Other than that, I didn’t have a ton of, of symptoms at the time.  But I decided to go to the doctor just to figure out what was going on with my stomach.  I was feeling kind of in my  more in my esophagus area too.

 When I would have increased stress, I noticed more sensitivity. So I was curious if there was, you know, a hernia or something, very simple going on  and come to find out, you know, it ended up being cancer.  It was pretty minimal. I mean, there was pain, there was discomfort, but it wasn’t excruciating.

Gotcha. It sounds like, so you said tightness. So when I think of that, I literally thought of anxiety off the bat. So then that makes every listener, I would assume who has anxiety is now like, oh my gosh, what is happening to my body?  And so would, does everybody need to run out and get tested for cancer or, 

Courtney: [00:03:11] yeah, don’t recommend that I have struggled with anxiety over the years, and this did feel different than that to me.

But with, with, as a person who, who tends to be a little bit more anxious and very in tune with my body, I definitely knew something was wrong, but I really. Trying not to go the route of like, oh, well it must be cancer.  Which is very easy for my type of personality to do, to go to worst case scenario.

 But yeah, I would say if you’re, if you’re continuously experiencing some discomfort, it never hurts to go to your primary doctor. And that’s exactly what I did.  So that was kind of what started the testing for me. 

Cassandra: [00:03:48] So how did that go? So you go see the doctor, what kind of tests do you do? 

Courtney: [00:03:54] So for her, she said it could have been a hernia or a pulled muscle in my abdomen.

So she said, why don’t we just roll things out and get you a ultrasound? And so I went and did an ultrasound, which I was cracking up. Cause I was like, man, I was really thinking the first time I do an ultrasound will be because I’m pregnant and it’s exciting. And here I am looking for something that’s wrong.

So  definitely.  A little twist different than what I was hoping for. So I did an ultrasound that came back and it showed that there were some abnormalities. And so my doctor said, “All right, well, let’s get you a abdominal CT  cat scan.” So I went and got that. And then that came back and they noticed some swollen lymph nodes.

And at that point that’s really when the concern started for me.  Of course I was nervous up until that point, but I was kind of trying to rule out anything bad  because that doesn’t lead me anywhere. Positive. So once that one came back, she said, there’s swollen lymph nodes. We’re going to do another CT.

We’re going to go do it a chest CT. So the way the CT works is you only, they only take a portion of your body. It’s not a full scan. And so they needed to do a scan of my upper body to see if the small lymph nodes continued. And so that was the first indicator for me that something might be wrong. Cause she said, if that comes back and it ends up being.

More swollen lymph nodes than we’re going to need to biopsy. And when I heard the word biopsy, I was like, oh no, I know what this means. I remember exactly where I was when I got the phone call. And so I was like, okay, I’m gonna take it one step at a time. So I got my abdominal, I had my abdominal, I got my chest.

And then they came back and said, yup, you have more swollen lymph nodes. And at that point I started researching. I was like, okay, what is small lymph nodes? What type of cancer could this be? And ended up finding out that it could be lymphoma.  And that was the primary one that I, that I noticed when I was researching.

 And then they, they did the that second CT and then they’re like, okay, now we need to biopsy. So then I went and had a biopsy done and that took about a week before I got the results back. And that’s when it was. It was conclusive that you have  you ha you know, that I had cancer. And what type 

Cassandra: [00:06:07] of cancer did you have?

Courtney: [00:06:09] So when the doctor, the doctor called me, cause I was living at a state and I was trying to deal with some logistics on things. She called me. And she said, you have non-Hodgkin’s follicular lymphoma. And I was like non wet. That’s a really big, those are a lot of big words. I’ve never heard of this before.

Lymphoma is essentially what I have, but there’s Hodgkin’s lymphoma and non-Hodgkin’s  so mine was non-Hodgkin’s follicular lymphoma. And at the time they weren’t able to categorize.  The stage of cancer.  But she did say I had a lower, a lower grade. So meaning that it was slower growing form of cancer, which is a good sign, still cancer, nonetheless.

But  so then I had to get additional testing, so I had to get. A pet scan, blood work and a bone marrow biopsy. And at that point  I met with the oncologist and found out it was stage four cancer, which when I hear stage four, I instantly think worst case scenario terminal.  And so. It was a little bit of a shock, you know, when I got that news.

 And I can explain a little bit more as to there’s different staging to cancers. And so I can only speak to lymphoma the non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma.  If you stage four means that it’s it’s above and below  your, your waistline.  And because. I had swollen lymph nodes in my groin area and my abdomen and my armpit and my chest.

 It was in multiple areas. And so that’s what categorized it as a stage four.  Thankfully my form of cancer is.  It’s not curable, but it is treatable.  And so that was kind of my saving grace, as I was going into this process, 

Cassandra: [00:07:53] things you don’t know until you get cancer. Am I right? Like, you know, that they’re stage 1, 2, 3, and four, and you know, the forest, not the goodest and one is okay.

And like, but you don’t know what any of those things mean. And so I really appreciate you spelling that out for us. What does that mean? I don’t know what stage four means. All I know is that’s not good. And how is she still here? So that, and it also gives hope to people who are listening, who are like, this just happened to exactly, to me.

How do I. 

Courtney: [00:08:21] Yeah, stage four is definitely a  you know  a punch in the stomach when you hear it.  Just given, you know, I have a lot of people in my life that have  battled cancer in the past.  Those very close to me and my dad being one of them. And my dad unfortunately  had a more aggressive form of cancer.

He had a soft geo cancer and  did treatment and surgery.  Unfortunately his metastasized and, you know, resulted in him passing from cancer. So  I, you know, I, when I heard stage four, it was, it was something that I had to really  Really focused on the fact that that was my dad’s story and that my stories, my story can look different.

That just because we both had stage four does not mean that my, the end of my story is going to result in what his was.  And that’s, that’s probably one of my biggest lessons learned was not to compare. My journey with anybody else’s, every diagnosis is different. Every treatment’s different side-effects are different.

So, you know, for those of you listening, I think what’s key to remember is yes, you can glean and you can learn from others through the process, but also your story is yours and trying not to compare and being like, well there, you know, this ended poorly for them or they had a terrible experience. You have to walk through your through your  journey in that 

Cassandra: [00:09:47] That’s really beautiful Courtney, and that’s something that whatever you’re battling, whatever you’re going through, like, it’s a really good reminder.

How do you get an oncologist?  We’ve gone really deep and we’re going to go rural shallow, but yeah. I’m curious in more of the logistical side for this is how do you pick an oncologist or did you just happen to get lucky? 

Courtney: [00:10:09] Yeah, mine was a little unique because we were moving. So we’re in San Diego, but we were living in Michigan at the time. So I was dealing with my primary, who was out here and we were moving back to California. So it was, it was a little challenging. But my doctor, my primary, doctor’s the one that really helped us walk through each step.

And so, and I would just ask a lot of questions and say, okay, so who’s calling me next and who am I waiting to hear from? And a lot of times,  I was really waiting for them to call, to make appointments. And so that was helpful for me because I wasn’t having to seek out a lot.

Scheduling that they were, they would say, Hey, we’re going to process this. And someone from radiology will call you or someone from oncology we’ll reach out to you and schedule it. So I didn’t, I didn’t pick my oncologist. There was I think two or three at the, at sharp  near our house. And so we got assigned an oncologist and  And that was kind of the, the step.

I think it depends on the type of cancer you have. There are certain, I know people that have a certain type of cancer and they, they seek out someone that really specializes in that non-Hodgkin’s follicular lymphoma is not  a rare cancer.   It’s fairly treatable and there’s a decent survival rate.

And so I wasn’t focused as much. And really at the time there’s so much coming at you that  it, it can be overwhelming in terms of making decisions. So  I’ve seen it done a number of ways with, with other people that they’ve gone and they want to, they want to meet with the best of the best, and that, that works great for them.

I didn’t have that, that urgency or.  Like a conviction to have to go and research a bunch of  different doctors.  I had  going into it really been praying about. What I would do when it comes to treatment, because I saw my dad go through chemo and radiation and I saw how hard it was on him.

And I told myself, I would never, if I ever got cancer, I would never do that. And here we are, you know,  10 years after my dad. I’m in the same in the same spot and trying to make these decisions. So I really spent some time personally praying about it and go and asking God, if I’m, if I do treatment, what treatment should I be doing?

And I felt really peaceful about chemotherapy. And so when I met with the oncologist and I will answer your question of what to look for, but when I met with him, He told me that the best form of treatment was going to be chemotherapy. And so that put me at ease to know that, okay, I was on the right path.

And  and looking back, some things that I would suggest as if you’re someone that fi found out that you are diagnosed with cancer. Some things that I would look for with the doctor is. You have to know your personality types. So for some people they prefer like giving the facts, just tell it to me straight.

Some people prefer a softer approach and want more of a relational aspect or empathy. And  what I learned was I, I, if I were to ever have to go that route again  I would probably find a different doctor because my doctor was a little bit more   even keel and. Not very empathetic. And,  that was challenging for me.

I’m about halfway through, I thought about switching doctors, but I wanted to just finish my treatment that way. So I would say, look for someone that you knowing your personality, what’s gonna, what’s gonna fit best for you.  Also someone that you feel comfortable asking questions around. If you, if you don’t feel like you can ask them questions, then you need to find somebody else because there’s going to be a lot along the way that you.

You need to have those open conversations.  Someone that’s accessible is, is also important and what’s tricky is you don’t know that going into it. So you’re not going to know how accessible they are until you’re a couple appointments in, and you’re trying to, you know, trying to find some time if you’re, if you’re an existing treatment, if you’re an existing patient, that’s getting treatment, they usually push you to the top of the of the chain. So for me right now, being on the other side of it  I’ve noticed a lower, you know, response time on things. And so  those are probably the primary things that I would look for with the doctor.  I didn’t do a second opinion. Maybe, you know, maybe I should have, but I felt pretty peaceful about the treatment plan.

And I really liked the facility and I, there was just a lot of things that for me, made sense to continue going down that path. 

Cassandra: [00:14:34] What I hear you saying though, is that  if you have any concerns about your doctor or you’re not comfortable, it’s really important to, to get that second opinion. It sounds like you didn’t need the second opinion because you were comfortable and.

I also loved that you talked on knowing yourself and knowing your personality. And if you don’t feel like, you know, how you like receiving information, the people near, you know, the people near, you know, how you respond to bad dues or how, who you’re most comfortable around. And that’s not necessarily what matches you because  your doctor.

Sounds like, it would be okay for me, but I do need, I need a little bit of empathy. I’m a very empathetic person, but I cannot work with very empathetic people because I’m like, yeah, it’s too much feelings in here. 

Courtney: [00:15:19] There’s too. There’s too much going on. Yeah. 

Cassandra: [00:15:21] Much factual is like  I need a little bit of love.

I need a little bit of TLC. 

Courtney: [00:15:28] What’s funny is when we went to meet him.  I went with my husband and my mom. And so when went to my doctor came in. So the first time you met him, he introduced himself and said, hi to my mom and said, how did my husband, and then turned to me and introduced himself to me. And then he said, oh, is this your mom and your dad?

And I should have known then that we should have probably just found a new oncologist because my husband goes, I’m her husband and. He was like, oh, I’m so sorry 

Cassandra: [00:15:56] for the record. Courtney’s husband is not older. Like there’s not a less significant aid. 

Courtney: [00:16:02] There’s a four, there’s a four year gap 

Cassandra: [00:16:04] and he doesn’t look older.

Courtney: [00:16:05] No, he’s got a little more salt and pepper  than the average, maybe 40 year olds. But yeah, no way. Was he 25 years older in my mom’s age. And so  we had a good laugh, but later on in the appointment,  he kept trying to. To fix it and say, well, you know, your mom just looks so young and it’s like, we just stop, stop you don’t, you know, you don’t need to go there.

 Looking back, we were like, man, we should’ve known right from the get-go, you know, you got it, got to look for someone different. But you know, as, as the treatments went on, I did have to meet with a couple of their doctors throughout when he was  on vacation or wasn’t available. And that was also another sign for me of like, wow, I really felt more comfortable with this person than I did that person.

So  like I said, I carried out my treatment plan, but. You know, if I were to need more care in the future, I would look elsewhere. So I would just encourage those of you. Don’t this is such a crucial part. Of the process and you want to feel supported and heard and whatever it is that you’re needing.

So don’t settle. This is really important. 

Cassandra: [00:17:09] What happened to your body during treatment, 

Courtney: [00:17:11] What didn’t happen to my body during treatment.   Every form of medicine will have different side effects. So I was grateful that my medication. And I’ll probably butcher how to pronounce them, but I had  Benda bendamustine or bendamustine and Rituxan.

And so   for any of you listening, if,  you can relate to those, to those forms of drugs  My side effects did not include hair loss. So I was very fortunate as a female, not to have to go that route.  But I did experience  fatigue and loss of appetite and nausea and anxiety and depression.

 And I would say the anxiety and depression is something that I’ve dealt with over the years aside from cancer. So I think it really just was heightened  during the process.  But I do think that the medicine problem. Kicked that up a notch. 

Cassandra: [00:18:02] The fact is Courtney has way more to share than we shared with you today.

Today, we focused on how Courtney got diagnosed and took you through the beginning stages of her treatment. Next week, we’ll finish up her treatment and she will give you some awesome tips on self care and for your support system, as well as create an awesome care basket. As always, you can find more information at neededandknown.com or in the show notes.

Thank you for helping Courtney to feel needed and known until you need me next time. Bye.

What happens when the perfect home burns down?

You need to go home. Your house is on fire.

She stared at her grocery cart and son in disbelief at the words she heard. How is this possible? She was home just a few hours ago and everything was fine.

When I see a story on the news of a house fire, I wonder what happens next? What would I do if they were my friend or loved one? In this episode, you’ll meet Jamie. She will share everything about what happens when a home burns down from insurance phone calls to what your loved ones you actually need.
This episode could be emotionally triggering as she briefly mentions her pets. Listener discretion is advised. 
The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.

Resources

American Red Cross – What to Do After a Fire

Introduction

[00:00:00] Cassandra: On this episode of needed and known, I’m introducing you to my friend, Jamie, while she was running errands, Jamie’s house burnt down.

[00:00:08] We see stories on the news of homes burning down. And I know I’m not the only one to wonder where did they go and what happens next? Jamie, will share everything from insurance phone calls to what your loved ones you actually need.

[00:00:19] And it’s not anything I thought of as you know, I encourage guests to be who they are. So I want to warn you that this episode could be emotionally triggering as she briefly mentions her pets. Listener (and reader) discretion is advised. 

The Perfect Home

This is the one. So it’s happy and it’s peaceful. 

Jamie, describing her house

[00:00:32] Can you tell us a little bit about buying your first home? 

[00:00:36] Jamie: Yeah, so it was a long process. It took us about four years to be able to go through the entire process, saving up getting credits  getting approved, finding a house, being able to get an offer in and a house.  The whole thing, you know, we didn’t come from backgrounds that kind of gave us that foundation. So it was just. Learn as we go.

[00:00:56] It was one of those things that I told my husband, I want to be a homeowner. And he looked at me like, I was crazy. Like, we’re never gonna own a house. Like we don’t do that. You know, we’re paycheck to paycheck people. And I was like, no, this doesn’t make sense. So it was a huge goal and it took forever. We actually ended up using  a first-time home buyers program in our County because we couldn’t get approved by ourselves. So it was a long process. And then even buying the house, people were like, no, the process is going to take too long. We’re not going to accept your offer. There’s too many what ifs. And so it was a long time.

[00:01:32] So this was like, when we found our house, it was like, this is it. We made it like this. Everything came to life. So it was super exciting for us. And it was something that we didn’t expect for ourselves previously, nobody around us expected. And it was, I don’t know, we just kind of did it. 

[00:01:49] Cassandra: That’s awesome.

[00:01:50] Can you tell us a little bit about your home? 

[00:01:53] Jamie: It’s modest it’s small it’s  in a subdivision, a cookie cutter community, three bedrooms, two bathrooms.  Very small for us. We have four kids. My husband had three before we got married. Now we added another one. So there are six of us in the house. And then my mom kind of jumped along.

[00:02:10] So it’s crowded. There’s a lot of us in it.  But it’s happy. So it’s like our peaceful spot.  It’s everything we liked. It’s got a lot of light in it. It’s concrete black, it’s got high ceiling. So all of those things, we’re like, oh, it’s what we would have pictured if we could have, I guess, had a choice, not like we really had much of one when we were shopping, but it was like, when we saw that it was like, this is it. This is the one. So it’s happy and it’s peaceful.

The Phone Call

…You need to go home right now. The fire department is at your house.

Jamie’s Mom

[00:02:40] Cassandra: That’s awesome. Okay. So what happened one day you’re shopping at target and everything changed with a phone call? 

[00:02:49] Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. So I’ll give a little bit of context before that we have a stove that had been acting up.  There was a couple of times that I came into the kitchen.

Once I came from out of town, we hadn’t even been in the house and I was like, I started smelling something. I’m like, what’s going on? And the stove was on, but we hadn’t cooked. And I’m like, That’s weird, but I didn’t really think anything of it. So I started getting in like this OCD habit of checking everything, touching all the burners is this on all the time, because I started becoming paranoid.

[00:03:17] So I was actually at a doctor’s appointment that morning. And after my doctor’s appointment, I went to Target with my son and we were just kind of browsing the aisles. And my mom called me and she was like, Have you talked to anybody, have you been home? I’m like, no, I’m at target. And she said, well, I keep on getting these phone calls.

[00:03:35] I think they’re prank phone calls. And somebody is saying that your house is burning down and I’m like, Why are you getting calls? Because she didn’t, she didn’t nothing links her to here. She slept here, but all of her mail goes somewhere else. And she has an out-of-state phone number. It doesn’t make sense to call her.

[00:03:52] So she’s like, it’s probably just a prank call. I have your uncle go over there because he lives down the road. And so she called me back about 15 minutes later, she was like, no, you need to go home right now. The fire departments at your house. And I don’t even know what you can think at that time I grabbed my son.

[00:04:07] I left the cart with all the groceries, which is like such an irresponsible, not me. Right. And ran out of the store. I must’ve looked like I was probably robbing the place, the speed I ran out of there and got home as fast as I could. I was doing like a hundred, like my mind was blank. I mean, I couldn’t even think of anything.

[00:04:27] What is, what does this mean? The fire department is at my house, like. That’s never a scenario in all of my overthinking that I ever thought of. 

[00:04:34] Cassandra: It sounds like you were just following your last direction. Your mom was like, go home and you were like, I have to go home. My house is burning down. Goodbye groceries, like going straight out the door.

[00:04:45] Jamie: Yeah. So it wasn’t until I was on the interstate, my husband called me. He was like, I just got a call from your uncle. What’s going on? I was like, I’m on my way home right now. And he, the worst timing ever, he just blurted out. He’s like, Oh, the pets are dead. And I was driving like, “This is the wrong time to tell me!! What are you talking about? How do you know?” He was like, “I don’t know. He just told me.” And I was like, “How does he know?!” And I was just like, Saying nothing all the way home. My son’s in the back, mommy, what’s wrong. And I couldn’t even get words.

I pull up to my house and there’s fire trucks there and it’s a big scene and there’s people down my street and I’m like, what’s going on?

[00:05:28] And I’m looking on the outside of my house and I’m going. I thought they said there was a fire. 

Where’s the Fire

[00:05:33] Cassandra: Oh. So you can’t even see anything.

[00:05:35] Jamie: Not from where I was. So our kitchen is where it started and that was a further back behind the garage. So  if I would’ve seen the sides of the house that weren’t covered up by neighbors, trees, I would have been like, Oh, okay.

[00:05:47] Like windows are blown out. Things like that. But from the front end, like other than that, all the windows looking really smoky. It’s fine. Like the house is right there. So they wouldn’t let me [00:06:00] go in. At first they had to finish everything. And so he was probably about an hour before I actually stepped in.

[00:06:06] And in the meantime it was like the firefighters  gave me a bag, like a trash bag. And they were like, yeah, these are your pets. Here you go. I’m like, cool. What do I do with this? Like, I don’t even know what’s going on at this point. Like processing, like thanks, dude. Merry Christmas you too. And when we finally went inside, it was just like, This is not what you expect a fire to look like, but it’s also not what you expect your house to look like.

[00:06:34] Cassandra: So what did it look like?

[00:06:36]Jamie: When you walk in the front room? So we have a big open area, kitchen living room, dining room area, and it was dark. First of all, there was no electricity to the house.  The roof, like the ceiling, I guess not the roof completely in.

[00:06:52] Cassandra: Was it dark outside?

[00:06:54]Jamie: No, it was light outside, but it had gone all the way to the rafters, but all of the [00:07:00] windows.

[00:07:00] Yeah. All the windows were smoked over. So there was like soot, like a layer of soot and there was no lights inside and all you could see is just what was coming in from the door that had been kicked in. And it was just, the ceiling was down on the floor, insulation everywhere, chard everything, all my kitchen cabinets, half the ceiling, everything just on a big Ash pile.

[00:07:23] And I was just like, what? And then on top of that, it was wet, which is something I wasn’t expecting. But when the firefighters came in all the water, so it was like flooded city floating. Insulated ashy mess. And I was like, this is my house, but it’s not my house. Like I see part of my kitchen table is still there, but this isn’t, it is, but it’s not, it was like a weird, like this radiation.

[00:07:50] Yeah, exactly. Like I’m walking through this, like not fully grasping that it’s mine. Yeah, I guess so it was, it was very weird. And then [00:08:00] going, you know, Back through like the hallway, the kitchen, like the kitchen was gone.  Yeah, just having to step over things. And it was just like, it’s crazy. And the smell, it smelled like burnt Tupperware, like just permeating.

[00:08:17] And I’m just like, what just happened? I was just here like six hours ago. It was wild.

Hurricane Saved Us

So those honestly, if it weren’t for the hurricane, all of that would have been gone. 

[00:08:23] Cassandra: That is so wild because it’s so fast, right? It’s not like. You know, we grew up with hurricanes. So you got like days warning. There’s water coming. It’s going to be windy. You can prepare. It’s like it’s a matter of hours.

[00:08:38] Jamie: Exactly. And speaking of hurricane, that is actually why the things that did kind of make it through, made it through. It happened about just a couple of days after hurricane Irma. So that was projected to come straight to Tampa. And I’m a planner. So I bought all of these super heavy duty  like plastic locking containers and everything that I thought, [00:09:00] well, you know, if my roof comes off, these are the things that are going to protect my things.

[00:09:04] So they were all still in there because we were spared from Irma. We never even lost power, but  For this and apparently protected against heat against soot against water, against everything. So all my photos  like my son’s baby book, my jewelry, like all the things that you’re like if I ever, you know, had to run into my house at the last minute, these are the things I would take.

[00:09:28] Those were all in those plastic bins. So those honestly, if it weren’t for the hurricane, all of that would have been gone. 

[00:09:36] Cassandra: That’s crazy. What room were those things in? Like where they, they were away from the fire. I’m assuming they were out of the kitchen or…

[00:09:43]Jamie: they were out of the kitchen. They were back in my room, but in my rooms at the end of the house.

[00:09:48] So it’s kind of like a long floor plan where like, it kind of goes along and  and like, What does that hallway? So like, what is the word?  So it’s at the end of that, but what happened was, and we didn’t know, not something I would foresee is that when all of the firefighters came in, because we have these  high ceilings, when they sprayed all the water in them, Within the next day or two, all of the ceilings came down in the house.

[00:10:16] Is there anything that happened? Yup. Anything that wasn’t wrecked in the house became ruined. So it was just, it collapsed on to everything. It was a mess, but everything was safe because the soot when    The air conditioning, I guess, was running through the whole thing. So it took all of the smoke from the kitchen and covered everything in the house.

[00:10:37] So everything in every room was covered in a layer of soot and then of course water. And then within the next couple of days, the ceilings on top of it, water, mushy mess everywhere. So, but the pictures, the important things that I would like. Really want to cherish. All of those were  protected, like amazingly.

[00:10:57] Yeah. And if it weren’t for the hurricane, it wouldn’t have been.

Sleeping After the Fire

[00:11:02] Cassandra: so, okay. So your house burns down, you’ve got your pictures. What do you do that first night? Where do you like? I I’ve always wondered. Okay. Now these people you’re, you, you have no place to sleep. Arguably, do you stay with a family member or do you, what do you do?

[00:11:20] What did you do?

[00:11:21]Jamie: [00:11:21] We ended up staying in a hotel. We you’re trying to figure that out as well, because we don’t really, we were the stable ones. Like people stayed at our house and people were staying at our house because of Irma because they didn’t have power. And so we’re like, where are we going? Nobody has power.

[00:11:37] And nobody has room and we don’t really have money to go to these places. So our insurance ended up putting up us in a hotel for two weeks, and that’s where we stayed at. We walked in there looking like a bunch of bums covered in soot and smelling like smoke. And  that was home. That was the new home.

[00:11:55] Cassandra: [00:11:55] So you were there for two weeks. What’s high level. We [00:12:00] don’t have to get into the details, but I’m a nerd. And I think the people listening are probably nerds. If they’re listening to this  w what high-level overview, what happens with your insurance? So you’re like, At what, what, at what point did you call, were you like, well, I’m standing at my house and it’s burning down.

[00:12:15] Are you like soaking it up after going, Oh my God, I have to call insurance. Like how, what happened? 

[00:12:20] Jamie: [00:12:20] In fact, I was the first one.  I had a metal file container with all of my, you know, also locking and everything with all of my important documents, had everything in there because of the hurricane. And. As soon as I got to the house, I was like, we have to call our insurance company because aren’t you supposed to let them know immediately?

[00:12:36] Like I took it a little bit too, literally that within, within two hours of being at the house, I found the paperwork. I called them. I filed the claim.  And yeah, so basically they had an adjuster come out, but it ended up being weeks later because of Irma. They were so backed up.  They basically said, well, you can stay in the hotel for two weeks.

[00:12:55] And then after that, we can’t cover it anymore. So you need to find a place to live. [00:13:00] And good luck and they kind of just left it up to us. So we ended up staying almost an hour away. They were like, just to find somewhere, find somebody that will rent to you find somewhere furnished because we’re not going to pay for furnishings, like find all of these things.

[00:13:15] And it’s up to you now because you can’t stay in the hotel anymore. And we did. We moved in, about an hour away and stayed there for two months. And then right before Christmas, we had to get out because it was kind of like an Airbnb. And they were like, yeah, we have people coming. So you got to get out.

[00:13:30] And there was nowhere else to find because of course it’s Christmas in Florida and there’s nowhere. So we ended up going to see my dad for like a week and a half I’m in Wisconsin. We’re like, Ooh, we have nowhere to go. So let’s make a vacation out of it. And we did, and we came back, rented another house.

[00:13:45] And then went back to a hotel again and then finally made it back home after six months.

[00:13:50]Cassandra: [00:13:50] So you were out of your home, was it about six months from burn to move back in just over six months?

[00:13:58] Jamie: [00:13:58] Yeah. 

[00:14:00] [00:13:59] Cassandra: [00:13:59] Okay. Wow. So that’s like. Building a new home. That’s how long that takes essentially.

[00:14:04]Jamie: [00:14:04] And we moved in. It wasn’t even completely finished yet, but our insurance had run out.

And we moved in. It wasn’t even completely finished yet, but our insurance had run out.

[00:14:10] So we were like, yeah, y’all better have our house kind of ready. And they did. And they continued working on it for about another six months. 

[00:14:18] Cassandra: [00:14:18] So what else did they do? What else did they have left to do when you moved in? 

[00:14:23] Jamie: [00:14:23] They still had electrical stuff to, to left. They still had like all of the trimming and like finishing and all the little things.

[00:14:31] Like backsplashes some more tile work, things like that, but it was like able to be lived in while they did all these things. We just kind of had to work around people for the next several months. 

Insurance Questions

[00:14:43] Cassandra: [00:14:43] Did you just rebuild the exact same floor plan? 

[00:14:46] Jamie: [00:14:46] Exactly. So when the home burned down, it was down to the studs basically is how we had to tear it all down.

[00:14:52] So the foundation is the same. The garage is the same. The studs are the same, everything else is brand new. 

[00:14:58] Cassandra: [00:14:58] Gotcha. 

[00:14:59] So I’m [00:15:00] asking all these like nerdy questions, but now I’m like, okay, so wait, are you paying for your rental and your mortgage at the same time? 

[00:15:08] Jamie: [00:15:08] No. So the insurance there’s a portion of the insurance called ale.

[00:15:11] So that covers yes, very important to have, as it turns out, I had no idea what it was, but that covers your living expenses. When you’re out of your house due to a claim  always get extra. We found out that’s why we had to move back in our house because we were    approaching the six month Mark and we were out of funds.

[00:15:31] So for the last. Month or so old that was out of pockets. So thankfully it took us about that long where, you know, but yeah, we still to pay the mortgage and then thankfully they covered most of that living expense. 

I’m Not a Material Girl

So immediately, it was, it was the shock of not having anything like having to go to Walmart and buy a new toothbrush should not like not having the smallest things that you take for granted to being angry 

Jamie, the night of the fire

[00:15:45] Cassandra: [00:15:45] Okay. Okay. Well, that’s a kick in the teeth, but I mean, yeah. That’s what happens? My goodness.

[00:15:53] Okay. So it’s been a little bit cleansing for you cause you had stuff because the environments that we come [00:16:00] from, everybody saves everything. Cause we’re scared. We’re not going to have more  And you might need that one day. I feel like that’s the most common phrase in my family is why do you never know? You might need that one day. It’s a dollar. I can replace it for a dollar, like it’s going to be okay.  So what happens, like what sort of cleansing happened with that for you?

[00:16:20] Jamie: [00:16:20] So immediately, it was, it was the shock of not having anything like having to go to Walmart and buy a new toothbrush should not like not having the smallest things that you take for granted to being angry to all of a sudden, one day I called my dad.

[00:16:35] I’m like, you know what I feel okay about this. Like, I have made peace with losing everything and I realized that I don’t need these things in order to continue my life. I’ve had them. I haven’t had them for a month now. And I’m still okay. I’m still thriving. I’m still living my life. So I made my peace with that.

[00:16:53] And so now that we’re back in here, it’s kind of like, well, we can appreciate things and we [00:17:00] can have things, but I don’t let things have us, if that makes sense. So. It’s easier to kind of like let these things go rather than to be so attached to them.  Like I was before, because we were very much like that, like, Oh, we might need this, you know, weird thing that you can probably find a dollar tree, but we don’t might not have the extra dollar next week to go get it.

[00:17:19] So I’m going to go store this away in the garage. I’m going to store this under the bed.  It’s kind of given me a different mindset of what is really needed what’s wanted and what’s just extra. And now all the extra stuff makes me very anxious. Yeah. I don’t to hear it. Like, I don’t want it.

[00:17:41] Cassandra: [00:17:41] And that’s, that might not be everybody’s experience, but that was your experience just because. That you, it sounds like you kind of already had that in the back of your mind as like, well, I’m, you were wrestling with it maybe. And so it was like a forced cleansing of stuff. 

[00:17:55] Jamie: [00:17:55] Definitely. Cause it’s always one of those things like, Oh one day I’m going to get rid of all this and I’m going to be, you know, comfortable enough.

[00:18:01] But I was never at that point that I could just be so reckless to be like, yeah, let me throw it all away. And just hope that I’m good for tomorrow or next week. 

Show Up for a Friend Through Trauma

[00:18:08] Cassandra: [00:18:08] Right. Okay. So switching gears, if someone’s recently lost their home, what would you say to them? 

[00:18:18] Jamie: [00:18:18] This is one of the things that it’s…

It’s so nice to say, “Oh yeah, let me know if you need anything.” And it’s great. But I also feel like it’s kind of empty because there were a lot of people that said that to me. And so when I tried to call upon them, it was like, ‘Oh yeah, but I’m busy this week’ or, ‘Yeah, I can’t really do that right now.’ And for me, it was having somebody to watch my son because I had to come back to the house.

I had to try to pick through items… and I didn’t have anyone to even keep [my son]…

So I could do that without exposing him to all this. So it was just little things that I didn’t feel like people were really there. Like when they say, Oh yeah, let [00:19:00] me know if you need anything.

[00:19:01] So I feel like if somebody, you know, has experienced something traumatic, let them know how you can help. If you aren’t able to be there completely, whenever they need to. To have somebody for them, let them know, Hey, if you need a meal, let me know, and I can cook it. Or if you need a gift card here, something to, you know, McDonald’s or whatever the case may be  let them know specific ways that you can be there for them.

[00:19:23] Or if you are going to kind of give them a, let me know if you need me live up to it, just kind of be there and understand that they’re not going to be okay to talk about it right away and answer all the questions and kind of go through that whole. Traumatic process that sometimes I don’t, I couldn’t even form full sentences.

[00:19:43] I don’t think for a couple of weeks afterwards, I was just like in zombie mode, like, I don’t know. So just being there, honoring your word, honoring your commitments, and I guess having concrete ideas of how you can assist. I think those are all really [00:20:00] important things.

[00:20:01]Cassandra: [00:20:01] I think that’s really great advice.

[00:20:02] I’m I. I’m good at thinking of some ideas, but I can’t think of all the ideas. So I’m wondering if it would be helpful for me to say, like, what, what are your, like, what are your next steps so that I can figure, is that something that I could ask? Like, what are, what are you doing next? And how can I support you?

[00:20:22] Jamie: [00:20:22] I think that’s really nice to have too, because you’re getting that feedback in that, putting somebody in the moment, because I would get calls or texts like, Hey, what do you need right now? Or what are your kids need? And I’m like, well, I’m living out of hotel, so I really don’t even have any room for anything.

[00:20:34] But thank you for asking, because people would be like, Oh, you can have some clothes or here’s my kid’s old toys, but it’s more about, and it comes from a good place. I’m sure. But in, you know, my reaction where I’m like, I can’t take anything else. I don’t have room for it. There are six of us in hotel room, you know?

[00:20:51] We can’t take it, then it comes off more offensive. Like, Oh, I tried to offer her something and it, you know, she didn’t even want it when it’s not that at all. It’s like, I’m not in a [00:21:00] position to appreciate what you’re trying to do for me right now.  So yeah, I think a very good thing would be to ask somebody what is coming up so I can help you.

[00:21:09] And be kind of part of that process rather than just putting somebody on the spot. Like, what do you need right now at this moment at nine 53 and a Tuesday? You know, how can I help you right now? Because chances are, somebody’s going to have no idea. 

[00:21:22] Cassandra: [00:21:22] That’s really good advice, Jamie, I think  I, I appreciate you sharing such a hard time because you’re naturally just a pretty positive and upbeat person.

[00:21:32] And so  but I know during this time that I think that’s probably why you were. Zombie like, cause you’re like, my brain does not process these sorts of things that are happening. I’m looking for the logic and the rationale. And there is no, there is no rationale. It’s just something that happened.  And so I love, I love that you were willing to share that because it’s a, it is a really intimate story.

[00:21:56] How long ago, how long ago was the fire now? 

[00:22:00] [00:22:00] Jamie: [00:22:00] It was three years ago, last month. 

[00:22:02] Cassandra: [00:22:02] Okay. Oh, wow. So it’s still really fresh.  I mean, relatively speaking, I mean, I could say that in 30 years would be like, it wasn’t that long ago

[00:22:12]Jamie: [00:22:12] it was a life time ago, but it was also just yesterday. So it’s, there’s, there’s both of those kind of going on at once.

[00:22:18] Cassandra: [00:22:18] Yes. So crazy. Awesome. And I appreciate the like knowing what we can do, because I I’m, again, one of those people that’s like, I think I like, I’m happy to help. I just don’t even know what that means. 

[00:22:31] Jamie: [00:22:31] And I think I’m the same way as well. I’ve changed the way I try to react to people going through something, whether it’s a death, whether it’s through a, a breakup or a, you know, something traumatic like this it’s.

[00:22:44] It helps me to help them in a way just to know that wow. Every time I say that it’s kind of empty because Oh yeah. Let me know if you need me. But I’m not actually there if you need me. So it’s helped me to become better in that way. 

[00:22:58] Cassandra: [00:22:58] I’m so happy to see you. [00:23:00] And I look forward to talking to you soon. I’ll see you later.

[00:23:02] Jamie: [00:23:02] All right. Thank you so much. 

[00:23:04] Cassandra: [00:23:04] Okay, bye bye. 

Hanging Up

When Jamie described the importance of making specific offerings and following through, I was nodding like crazy. I love that. She talked about giving people space to process their grief and trauma instead of asking too many questions. Share how you show up for friends in trauma below.

[00:23:20] Thank you for being a great listener and making Jamie feel needed and known.

[00:23:24] Want to talk more between episodes? Follow me on Instagram at needed and known until you need me next time. Bye.