self awareness

What does my anxious friend with cancer really need?

Anxiety and Cancer and Friendship

Sometimes those of us with anxiety think we have cancer. And then sometimes we actually do. And sometimes it makes the anxiety worse. Anxiety and cancer. I see a lot of learning opportunities here.

Today I’m introducing you to Courtney, who will share about her self-talk as she worked through some discomfort in her body, through her diagnosis, and shares about the cancer journey. This is episode TWO of TWO — This week Courtney shares advice for how to get the right support for yourself as a patient and how to support someone through their cancer journey–what do they really need?
The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.

Subject Resources

Courtney’s blog: You are Not Alone

American Cancer Society

Transcript

[00:00:00] Cassandra: This is the continuation of last week’s episode. Courtney is in the middle of sharing about her cancer journey. Last week, she shared about her diagnosis and how she started treatment this week. We’re getting into the details of her support system, what they did and how she leaned in to knowing herself, to make the most of her relationship

[00:00:39] Courtney: I had treatment monthly. So for that first week, right after treatment, That was usually my worst. So that was where I would sometimes get sick and throw up. They were able to, after a couple months increase my increase, the medicine that they gave me during treatment. And I’m at home medicine that I could take after to help lessen the nausea.

So I ended up only throwing up the first two or, you know, the first two treatments. They were, I was still very nauseous, but it never brought me to the point. They’re like, we don’t want you to get to the point where you actually throw up. We’ll try to manage your nausea as best as possible. So That was a big one.

For me, that fatigue was something that as the treatments went on, it compounded. So by, by treatment five, I was fatigued more than just the first week. You know, it led into week two. My last treatment, the fatigue lasted, , two, two and a half weeks and fatigue, the best way to describe fatigue.

When you’re, when you’re really sick, you have a bad cold, or you have the flu and that point where like it’s exhausting to take a shower or it’s exhausting to like heat up soup. That’s fatigue. Like. Comparison. And so that was scary for me because I’m so used to being independent and I was still working at the time doing during treatment.

So I would take a week off and then I would work the rest of the time from home or in the office. And they were really gracious with me. But you know, I would walk to my car and I would literally be just exhausted from it. And I would just have to talk myself down from that and go. Like you don’t need to freak out right now.

This is part of the process. This is, this is a result of the chemo therapy that’s in my body. I will gain back my strength and had to do a lot of self-talk. Cause the fatigue was scary. When you’re used to having energy.

[00:02:30] Cassandra: So, and I think along the lines of that, self-talk, you’ve talked about your support and you need a lot of support in this time from your doctor, but also from the people around you, you talked about bringing your mom and your husband to the first appointment.

What were some things that the people in your network or your community, the people right around you who are, who are always there? What did they do or how did they help or how did you have to ask for help? What did they do that surprised you? I just asked you like five

[00:02:57] Courtney: questions, slow those down. It’s okay.

So I have a great support group and was very thankful to be back in San Diego, which is where a majority of my friends and family and even church, community where, so. I had two days of treatment a month. So, and once again, every treatment is different. So I would go in for two days straight. The first day I’d go in and it’d be about a six hour six, five to six hour appointment.

And then the second day would be really short interview about an hour. These back-to-back. Yeah. So like Monday, Tuesday. So I go in on Monday for five, six hours, and then I, the medicine that they would give me would basically, I would basically sleep the rest of the day and then day two, I’d go in and they would just do one medication.

Not both, I believe day two was the Rituxan and. Then I would not see them again for another four weeks. So I had one of the things that my friends and family did was I would have someone come with me on to every appointment. So my husband went to the majority of them. My mom would go to some, and that was a really great way to invite people in because people want to help people, especially when they care so deeply for your life.

What can I do? And honestly, there’s. Not a lot they can do because it’s just so. So much what you’re going through. And so I just would try to think of things that I could include them on that. Like, yes, it was great to have them there. But it was in some ways more for them than it was for me. And that was okay.

So I would have someone different come every, every Monday for my longer appointment and you know, Chat with me, we play card games. It would depend on, on the treatment. But I usually got pretty groggy, so it was more just chill hanging out and it gave them an opportunity to see, you know, what treatment, what a treatment plan looks like.

So inviting people into, into your appointments is great. If you feel comfortable with it. And I would usually ask them to come a little bit later. So the first thing that they did. That they did from you as they would actually have to find a good vein. And that was the most stressful part for me. So I didn’t usually want someone there for that.

Cause it was, I felt the burden to have to host somebody and that’s not what they’re asking of me, but I felt that that sensitivity. So once again, learning, like what are, you know yourself well enough? And I wanted to have people come, but I would say, Hey, can you come, you know, an hour into. Into my appointment and they would come at that point when I felt settled and I was getting the, the medicine at that point.

So that’s one way, another way is

putting together a care package. I didn’t ask anyone to do this, but I got a ton of care packages along the way. And some great things. As silly as it is. My favorite item that I got from a care package was gum. And you’re thinking I’m like, get yourself your own gun, Courtney what’s why do you need someone to give it to you?

But it was something that another cancer patient, a former cancer patient gave me and I was like, cool, gum, thanks. And then the minute I started treatment, I was like, gum, this is amazing because you’re depending on the type of drug and treatment that you have. Your mouth tastes different. So it tastes, mine tasted more like irony than normal.

And I would also, when I was nauseous, gum was really refreshing for me. And yeah, so it helps in a number of ways. Yeah, it helps. And I would suggest getting for, for those of you that are the actual one, going through it, maybe pick some gum that is not your favorite gum, because as you go through it, you may never want to eat that gum, you know, again.

So if you always like spearmint, like maybe do I did a tropical gun, something that I would never normally eat, but it was really refreshing salivating. So gum was a big one. I got a ton of coloring books because there’s a lot of downtime and colorings, a very easy. Activity that you can do when you’re just waiting around.

Another one was like a teapot and tea and ginger chews gift cards to restaurants was really great because there were times. I do the majority of the cooking. So it was a little hard on my husband because I did not have any energy to cook and sometimes I didn’t want to eat and he needed to eat.

So gift cards are always great and it gives us the freedom to, you know, go and get it when we want to. And. For those that are essential oil levers, I also got some essential oils and really just a lot of things that, that are somewhat neutral. So I, I would suggest like staying away from like really heavy sense because depending on the type of treatment.

Sometimes smells are, you’re very sensitive to smells. So just trying to stay neutral in it. And then probably the last thing that was really special to me is I got some, some sweet blankets that people actually handmade for me that I could take with me to treatments. And so I would cuddle up because you’re usually pretty cold when you’re getting your treatments and you want your veins to be warm so that things pump quick.

And then I also got a kind of a shell wrap that I used, and that was really helpful because I ended up getting a port in my chest so that they could access and inject the medicine through my part, as opposed to through the veins in my arms or my hands. And so it’s nice to have something that you can kind of like take on and off very easily when you’re getting treatment.

So those are some special. Care packages. I feel like you just

[00:08:29] Cassandra: put together a care

[00:08:30] Courtney: package right there. Yeah, I did. So there’s some ideas for you guys. That’s a wonderful,

[00:08:34] Cassandra: well, so we have been talking about your cancer past tense and that’s because.

[00:08:41] Courtney: Are you cancer free? That’s a great question. So when I researched cancer-free a little bit ago, I learned that cancer-free technically means that you have been in remission for five years, meaning no science, no sign of cancer.

And so I am technically not cancer-free because it hasn’t been five years. But I am in remission and have been in remission for 14 months. So yeah. That is worth celebrating. So I have not had any signs of metabolic activity for 14 months since. And that was, I actually was in remission. At the end of month, two of my six month treatment and I was like, cool.

So are we, are we done with the treatment? Like I can just go back home and they’re like, no, you need to finish the treatment because it’ll help. That’s essentially, it’s going to also help keep it off and ensure that they get rid of any of those cells that might be lingering that are metabolic.

So, yes, so I was in remission fairly early on and and that was, that was probably one of the hardest emotions. Pieces of my journey because I was so excited and shared with everyone and like share, I shared my whole journey on social media so that people could follow along. And when I shared that I was in remission and people were like, that’s awesome.

That’s great. This is amazing. And then I noticed that the care and the check-in started to lessen. And I think that was because people think like remission, great. You’re done. You’re good. You’re moving on. And that doesn’t necessarily mean. You’re not out of the woods yet. And that was something that I had to learn, identify, and then communicate back to people.

So I did my best to say like, Hey guys, I’m in remission, super thankful, but like, I am not done with this fight yet. Like I’ve got another four treatments. And even then the healing process doesn’t start until it takes a while for the, for the medicine to actually leave your body for your, and then for your body to actually build back all of that.

Healthy cells that chemotherapy, although it’s great, you know, it’s basically attacking your body, the good and the bad cells. And so it takes time. So that was a big, a big takeaway from you was going. I’m not, I’m not out of the woods yet. I’m going to rejoice and be thankful, but this is an over how long was it

[00:10:57] Cassandra: until you felt like Courtney again?

Fatigued Courtney or nauseous Courtney

[00:11:03] Courtney: or so I ended the treatment in December of 2019. And so I’m coming up on my one-year mark of not having chemo, which is amazing. And to be honest, I’m just now starting to feel. Fairly normal. The, the medicine does where it does leave your body, around 30 to 60 days, at least for mine specifically, but then you still have a lot of residual things that come up.

There’s emotional turmoil that comes from it because of what you just went through. Very traumatic. It can be a very traumatic experience. You also have your physical body. That is like I said, trying to build back strength. And so it’s taking it’s. There was a time where I couldn’t even walk a mile. And I had to build back that strength.

There’s also I still had a lot of pain in my stomach afterward, which was, which was scary for me cause I was thinking, okay, the cancer’s back. All right, here we go again. But my stomach was sensitive because that’s where the majority of my, of my cancer was. And so that’s where the medicine that’s where the chemo was working its hardest.

And so that’s the area of greatest weakness. So I’m still trying to gain back my six pack abs in all of this that never existed in the first place, if we’re being honest. But yeah, it’s, I mean, my doctor said it’s takes six months to a year before you feel, you know, fairly back to normal and that’s going to be different depending on how long your treatment was and what type of medicine you had.

But for me specifically, I’m just now getting to the place where I’m like, oh yeah, I feel, I feel good. I don’t need a heating pad at night. I don’t need to break out my walk. I can there’s just so many external things that you don’t even realize until you’re starting to feel better.

That’s so good.

[00:12:52] Cassandra: The scans though, you still have to have scans because you still want to make sure that you are continuing to be in remission. And you’ve shared a little bit about the, the anxiety and the emotional stress that comes with that. Can you talk to listeners about that?

[00:13:09] Courtney: Yeah. So, like I mentioned, I’ve been struggling with anxiety really ever, ever since my dad passed from cancer.

And for me, anxiety

it really shows when I’m feeling that I’m not in control and. Some way, somehow over the years, I have convinced myself that I’m in control of the things in my life. And to some extent you are, you know, there’s things within your control. You can determine when you wake up in the morning or what you feel your body with, or, , there’s things that you can control, but there’s so much more out of our control.

And so I had to learn. How to be okay. Not being in control. And the worst, the biggest form of anxiety I experiences when my body is when I’m not in control of my body. So this was truly the worst case scenario that could’ve ever happened for me. This was my biggest nightmare. Having cancer and having to actively choose to do something to my body.

That’s going to make it feel really bad, but it’s also going to heal it in some ways.

[00:14:10] Cassandra: It’s a weird combination.

[00:14:12] Courtney: Very strange. And so I my anxiety flared big time because I wasn’t in control of my nausea. I couldn’t do anything about it. I couldn’t make it go away. There’s only so many things that were within my control and it felt very minimal.

So I have a relationship with God. And so that was a big piece for me was, was prayer and journaling. I would journal a ton and there were a lot of things. That through the process that, that God was gracious and shared with me to encourage me. And so with anxiety, anxiety is very forward focused.

So it’s always thinking about something that may never come to fruition. And so I had to, to really focus on staying present and not looking more than that. An hour ahead of my day or a day, you know, looking more than a day out because it was exhausting and scary because you know, when you’re told you have stage four, non-Hodgkin’s follicular lymphoma at 35 and you know, your dad’s history, you’re thinking, well, I am probably going to die and leave my husband by himself.

And you know, you go, when you have anxiety, you go to those worst case scenarios, you think that way. And so I had to, I had to step out of that and walk myself backwards and go, okay, what, what is something that I can control right now? I can control. Getting to the doctor’s appointment on time. And even then traffic.

So once again, not in control, but there are things that I would try to do that that, that kind of grounded me and helped me feel like there were things that I was able to control. And a big thing for me that I would encourage. For those that are, you know, walking through a cancer diagnosis or treatment is I did counseling twice a month and that was a saving grace for me because there were so many emotions, so many firsts first that you’re experiencing.

And as a person that struggles with anxiety. That is unknown. It is foreign. And there’s once again, so much that you cannot manage. And so that was a really great outlet for me. But you know, I ended up taking a medication to help with my anxiety and was able to, you know, wean off of that probably four or five months after treatment.

And I just had to tell myself and my counselor encouraged me and that was. Giving myself grace to be okay with taking medication for the anxiety for a temporary period of time. You know, I didn’t want to take it cause I was like, I don’t want to be, I don’t want to be stuck on this for the rest of my life.

And so just being okay with getting the help I need going to counseling medication, , any other things that I could to try and self care, it

almost sounds like the medicine was part of your control even. Do, did you feel that way that you were. Well, I can use the medicine to have this under control, or where did it

make you feel?

A little out of control? I did notice that the medicine helped me. And so that was, that was more of a comfort than it was a shame piece. And so I chose comfort and try to not deal with, you know, with shame because my body was going through so much and you know, our bodies are not designed to, to deal with that.

Level of, you know, attack on, on the cells, Courtney,

[00:17:31] Cassandra: you shared so much today and I’m so thankful for it because you’ve given us, you’ve truly painted the story of what happened. And I think the importance of having the relationships in your life and really knowing yourself, I think that it sounds like that was probably the.

Thing that helped you is being comfortable with who you are knowing anxiety’s part of your life. And that that’s something that you’re fighting through already, and it’s going to get more heightened knowing what kind of care you need and you didn’t necessarily have to have somebody with you at every Monday appointment, but having them the first appointment, right.

It’s the long one. But knowing that that’s going to strengthen your relationship with people, making that a priority in a time when. It was, it was necessary really. And I just think that’s so beautiful. So I’m thankful for you and for sharing your story. Is there anything else that you wanted to add?

[00:18:31] Courtney: There’s a couple of things that that were really helpful for me in and over the past year and a half. When you say I’m going to speak more specifically to those that are dealing with a cancer diagnosis or walking through. Treatment. It’s okay. To be selfish. It is okay to set boundaries and to communicate your expectations.

And I know that that’s difficult sometimes because you’re thinking, well, I don’t even know what to communicate, cause I’ve never done this before. I’ve never experienced this. But to some extent, You will learn along the way and it’s okay to communicate as you learn it. So it’s not like you have to blanket statement, tell everyone everything you need upfront and you never get to say it again.

So I would constantly go back to people and reinforce or communicate new things that I needed. And so a few examples of that was when I found out that I. Had stage four, I, I specifically did not share stage four with people publicly. I shared it with a small number of people and I, I left it there because I didn’t think that it was necessary in my narrative to share the stage.

At the end of the day I have cancer. You’re going to fight my fight for my life. And I also learned that I’m somewhat of a people pleaser, so I’m very sensitive to other people’s opinions of me. And I know that chemotherapy, some people are for it, and some people are very much against it.

Some people prefer the natural homeopathic approach. And I am all for that, but I was doing. God, like I was being obedient to what I felt God was telling me to do. And I had to be true to stay in that course. And for me, what was, what brought me the most peace and, and that doesn’t mean that That that’s what the next person should be doing.

So I can only speak to mine, but I learned early on. And when I announced to people that I was that I had cancer and I was starting chemotherapy, I specifically said if you have if you have any records, if you have any recommendations or opinions on my treatment plan yeah. Please contact my husband and he will share with me as he feels led.

I did not want a single person telling me have you thought about doing this or you should be doing that. That was not helpful for me at the time. And I know that people’s intentions are great. They’re going, Hey, I’ve seen this work for another person, but once again, I had to. Focus on what I felt I needed to do.

And, and I could always change my mind. You know, I could’ve done chemotherapy for two months and said, heck no, I’m not doing this anymore. I’m going to go to this approach or I’m going to do this retreat, or I’m going to take this medication. And so for those of you that are going through it, it’s okay to put some boundaries in place and to politely tell people.

Thank you. But no, thank you. And I had to do that with some people along the way and. And it was to protect the relationship because I knew that their heart was in the right place, but I was not in a place to receive that information. So that was a big one for me. And then gosh, the other, the other like big takeaway for me is one that I’m not in control.

But to share, to bring people along in the journey with you, because. There were so many people along the way that, you know, once again, like I’ve never experienced cancer before, I didn’t know what to expect. And so I really tried to educate people along the way and just share my experience. And I’ve had so many people tell me that by sharing, it helps them to love someone else and they knew that was going through it.

And so I think there’s so much power in sharing, whatever that looks like for you. Let people in and. Share the journey because it’s very hard and it can be very isolating and by sharing it, it helps cut down the isolation where when you’re going through something like nobody else could relate to me.

But I found a couple people that had experienced treatment recently and I would, they were like on as a speed dial, still exists. Everyone is on speed dial, but I would, I had them there with the first one. I would text them, I would say, Hey. I need your help. I’m feeling really discouraged by this. How did you handle it?

And that person will respond back to me or we would get on the phone and talk. And so finding someone that’s gone before you and has walked, it doesn’t have to be the same form of cancer. It doesn’t have to be, you know, the most recent person that you’ve you’ve encountered, but find someone That has has walked that journey because it makes you not feel very, not feel as alone and can bring so much comfort.

There’s so many things that I learned from. The person that I reached out to that moved me quicker along in the healing process, because she taught me what took her a long time to learn. And I was able to quickly, you know, move past grieving or move past hurt or sadness, you know, some of the emotions that come with it along the way.

So those are some big, big takeaways for me. They really

are. It could be different for different people. So there’s no, it’s not like if you’re listening to this and you’re not the one going through it, you’re trying to help a friend. Feel free to share the episode, but for you to go to them and be like, well, I heard from Courtney and this is what she said.

That’s not going to help them. That’s not, they’re not, you can’t push somebody through this process. They really have to want to, like, you wanted to glean from a friend, you were ready to do that. Cancer’s really about meeting somebody where they are.

Yup. It very much is an every everyone’s going to look different.

So what’s helpful for me might look different for the next person. But, you know, as someone, as a, as a friend that, or a family member that you’re walking through, someone that you love, that’s going through cancer physically just being there for them and. It just goes such a long way. There were times when I would just ask someone to come over and sit with me because I was just so sad and overwhelmed and I knew that being alone, wasn’t going to be helpful for me.

But that also required me to be vulnerable. It required me to show weakness in front of this person. And so, and that’s, that may not be where you’re at and that’s okay. But you know, for those that are walking alongside someone, you know, just be consistent with them. And yeah. Don’t be offended if they, if they aren’t as responsive as they normally are, because they’re going through a battle, you know, it really is a battle.

And there were, yeah, there were times when I would just, you know, want to shut people out but be consistent for that person. And, if there ever comes a point where you feel like they’re not they’re not taking care of themselves you know, Keep caring for them. And being that consistent person and they will, they will, they will reach out when they’re ready.

[00:25:43] Cassandra: That’s beautiful, Courtney. Thank you. Thank you so much for meeting with us today and for sharing your personal story and just giving so much advice to those listening. I’m thankful for you and for your time. Thank you see when Brittany told me about her cancer journey, one thing was very clear to me. I even mentioned it many times because it’s so important.

Courtney knows who she is, not in a stuck unteachable way, but in a way that allowed her to create a safe space for herself. If I can encourage you in anything, it will always be to need and know yourself and others. And Courtney really nails that in a way that you. As a listener. Thank you for making Courtney needed a note.

The best way to let me know you enjoy this episode is to leave a review for more information about this episode or to read Courtney’s blog, click the link in the show notes until you need me next time. Bye.

What Happens When You Actually Have Anxiety And Cancer?

Anxiety and Cancer

Sometimes those of us with anxiety think we have cancer. And then sometimes we actually do. And sometimes it makes the anxiety worse. Anxiety and cancer. I see a lot of learning opportunities here.

Today I’m introducing you to Courtney, who will share about her self-talk as she worked through some discomfort in her body, through her diagnosis, and shares about the cancer journey. This is episode ONE of TWO — Next week Courtney will give advice for how to get the right support for yourself as a patient and how to support someone through their cancer journey–what do they really need?
The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.

Subject Resources

Courtney’s blog

American Cancer Society

Transcript

Cassandra: [00:00:00] Hey friend, it’s Cassandra, and this is needed and known the podcast where we discover how to transform average moments into a great life by learning, growing, and becoming better humans together. I interview amazing people who have improved their communication relationships and perspectives in unique cancer.

The dread that word alone brings, but why, what does it mean? Whether you or someone you love has cancer or like me, you’re just wished someone would spell it out on this episode. And the next I’m introducing you to Courtney. What I love so much about Courtney she’s self-aware and she shares in detail how she responded to her body emotional needs and about how cancer impacted her anxiety.

And she tells us the details about her cancer experience and the next week’s episode. She’ll continue her story and share more about her support system.

Hey Courtney,

Courtney: [00:00:57] Hey, Cassandra.

Cassandra: [00:00:58] Thank you so much for joining us today. I and I’ve been following your stories since the beginning, and I’ve known you since before that.

And so I’m so thankful to you for sharing this. If anybody has read the name to this episode, then they’ll know you had cancer. What were there any signs ahead of time that this was happening?

There were signs. I don’t know if I recognize the signs and I will say that. Form of cancer is going to look a little different when it comes to science.

So I can only speak to mine. But with that, with that said, I experienced Tightness in my stomach, which I was secretly hoping was just that I was getting really great six pack apps. And I, I learned later on that, that’s not what that was, but I got tightness in my stomach. And so when I would ever work out and do certain moves where I’m laying on my stomach, maybe it’s a Cobra position or a few other ones.

I would notice that it was uncomfortable. So it was really just discovered. And that lasted for probably eight or nine months. I didn’t think much of it. I just assumed. Okay, well, you know, there’s just some sensitivity there. Then I experienced back pain and I thought that was just due to, you know, working, working out a little too hard.

So I went to physical therapy and really, so it was like back pain, stomach pain, and. Other than that, I didn’t have a ton of, of symptoms at the time. But I decided to go to the doctor just to figure out what was going on with my stomach. I was feeling kind of in my more in my esophagus area too.

When I would have increased stress, I noticed more sensitivity. So I was curious if there was, you know, a hernia or something, very simple going on and come to find out, you know, it ended up being cancer. It was pretty minimal. I mean, there was pain, there was discomfort, but it wasn’t excruciating.

Gotcha. It sounds like, so you said tightness. So when I think of that, I literally thought of anxiety off the bat. So then that makes every listener, I would assume who has anxiety is now like, oh my gosh, what is happening to my body? And so would, does everybody need to run out and get tested for cancer or,

Courtney: [00:03:11] yeah, don’t recommend that I have struggled with anxiety over the years, and this did feel different than that to me.

But with, with, as a person who, who tends to be a little bit more anxious and very in tune with my body, I definitely knew something was wrong, but I really. Trying not to go the route of like, oh, well it must be cancer. Which is very easy for my type of personality to do, to go to worst case scenario.

But yeah, I would say if you’re, if you’re continuously experiencing some discomfort, it never hurts to go to your primary doctor. And that’s exactly what I did. So that was kind of what started the testing for me.

Cassandra: [00:03:48] So how did that go? So you go see the doctor, what kind of tests do you do?

Courtney: [00:03:54] So for her, she said it could have been a hernia or a pulled muscle in my abdomen.

So she said, why don’t we just roll things out and get you a ultrasound? And so I went and did an ultrasound, which I was cracking up. Cause I was like, man, I was really thinking the first time I do an ultrasound will be because I’m pregnant and it’s exciting. And here I am looking for something that’s wrong.

So definitely. A little twist different than what I was hoping for. So I did an ultrasound that came back and it showed that there were some abnormalities. And so my doctor said, “All right, well, let’s get you a abdominal CT cat scan.” So I went and got that. And then that came back and they noticed some swollen lymph nodes.

And at that point that’s really when the concern started for me. Of course I was nervous up until that point, but I was kind of trying to rule out anything bad because that doesn’t lead me anywhere. Positive. So once that one came back, she said, there’s swollen lymph nodes. We’re going to do another CT.

We’re going to go do it a chest CT. So the way the CT works is you only, they only take a portion of your body. It’s not a full scan. And so they needed to do a scan of my upper body to see if the small lymph nodes continued. And so that was the first indicator for me that something might be wrong. Cause she said, if that comes back and it ends up being.

More swollen lymph nodes than we’re going to need to biopsy. And when I heard the word biopsy, I was like, oh no, I know what this means. I remember exactly where I was when I got the phone call. And so I was like, okay, I’m gonna take it one step at a time. So I got my abdominal, I had my abdominal, I got my chest.

And then they came back and said, yup, you have more swollen lymph nodes. And at that point I started researching. I was like, okay, what is small lymph nodes? What type of cancer could this be? And ended up finding out that it could be lymphoma. And that was the primary one that I, that I noticed when I was researching.

And then they, they did the that second CT and then they’re like, okay, now we need to biopsy. So then I went and had a biopsy done and that took about a week before I got the results back. And that’s when it was. It was conclusive that you have you ha you know, that I had cancer. And what type

Cassandra: [00:06:07] of cancer did you have?

Courtney: [00:06:09] So when the doctor, the doctor called me, cause I was living at a state and I was trying to deal with some logistics on things. She called me. And she said, you have non-Hodgkin’s follicular lymphoma. And I was like non wet. That’s a really big, those are a lot of big words. I’ve never heard of this before.

Lymphoma is essentially what I have, but there’s Hodgkin’s lymphoma and non-Hodgkin’s so mine was non-Hodgkin’s follicular lymphoma. And at the time they weren’t able to categorize. The stage of cancer. But she did say I had a lower, a lower grade. So meaning that it was slower growing form of cancer, which is a good sign, still cancer, nonetheless.

But so then I had to get additional testing, so I had to get. A pet scan, blood work and a bone marrow biopsy. And at that point I met with the oncologist and found out it was stage four cancer, which when I hear stage four, I instantly think worst case scenario terminal. And so. It was a little bit of a shock, you know, when I got that news.

And I can explain a little bit more as to there’s different staging to cancers. And so I can only speak to lymphoma the non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. If you stage four means that it’s it’s above and below your, your waistline. And because. I had swollen lymph nodes in my groin area and my abdomen and my armpit and my chest.

It was in multiple areas. And so that’s what categorized it as a stage four. Thankfully my form of cancer is. It’s not curable, but it is treatable. And so that was kind of my saving grace, as I was going into this process,

Cassandra: [00:07:53] things you don’t know until you get cancer. Am I right? Like, you know, that they’re stage 1, 2, 3, and four, and you know, the forest, not the goodest and one is okay.

And like, but you don’t know what any of those things mean. And so I really appreciate you spelling that out for us. What does that mean? I don’t know what stage four means. All I know is that’s not good. And how is she still here? So that, and it also gives hope to people who are listening, who are like, this just happened to exactly, to me.

How do I.

Courtney: [00:08:21] Yeah, stage four is definitely a you know a punch in the stomach when you hear it. Just given, you know, I have a lot of people in my life that have battled cancer in the past. Those very close to me and my dad being one of them. And my dad unfortunately had a more aggressive form of cancer.

He had a soft geo cancer and did treatment and surgery. Unfortunately his metastasized and, you know, resulted in him passing from cancer. So I, you know, I, when I heard stage four, it was, it was something that I had to really Really focused on the fact that that was my dad’s story and that my stories, my story can look different.

That just because we both had stage four does not mean that my, the end of my story is going to result in what his was. And that’s, that’s probably one of my biggest lessons learned was not to compare. My journey with anybody else’s, every diagnosis is different. Every treatment’s different side-effects are different.

So, you know, for those of you listening, I think what’s key to remember is yes, you can glean and you can learn from others through the process, but also your story is yours and trying not to compare and being like, well there, you know, this ended poorly for them or they had a terrible experience. You have to walk through your through your journey in that

Cassandra: [00:09:47] That’s really beautiful Courtney, and that’s something that whatever you’re battling, whatever you’re going through, like, it’s a really good reminder.

How do you get an oncologist? We’ve gone really deep and we’re going to go rural shallow, but yeah. I’m curious in more of the logistical side for this is how do you pick an oncologist or did you just happen to get lucky?

Courtney: [00:10:09] Yeah, mine was a little unique because we were moving. So we’re in San Diego, but we were living in Michigan at the time. So I was dealing with my primary, who was out here and we were moving back to California. So it was, it was a little challenging. But my doctor, my primary, doctor’s the one that really helped us walk through each step.

And so, and I would just ask a lot of questions and say, okay, so who’s calling me next and who am I waiting to hear from? And a lot of times, I was really waiting for them to call, to make appointments. And so that was helpful for me because I wasn’t having to seek out a lot.

Scheduling that they were, they would say, Hey, we’re going to process this. And someone from radiology will call you or someone from oncology we’ll reach out to you and schedule it. So I didn’t, I didn’t pick my oncologist. There was I think two or three at the, at sharp near our house. And so we got assigned an oncologist and And that was kind of the, the step.

I think it depends on the type of cancer you have. There are certain, I know people that have a certain type of cancer and they, they seek out someone that really specializes in that non-Hodgkin’s follicular lymphoma is not a rare cancer. It’s fairly treatable and there’s a decent survival rate.

And so I wasn’t focused as much. And really at the time there’s so much coming at you that it, it can be overwhelming in terms of making decisions. So I’ve seen it done a number of ways with, with other people that they’ve gone and they want to, they want to meet with the best of the best, and that, that works great for them.

I didn’t have that, that urgency or. Like a conviction to have to go and research a bunch of different doctors. I had going into it really been praying about. What I would do when it comes to treatment, because I saw my dad go through chemo and radiation and I saw how hard it was on him.

And I told myself, I would never, if I ever got cancer, I would never do that. And here we are, you know, 10 years after my dad. I’m in the same in the same spot and trying to make these decisions. So I really spent some time personally praying about it and go and asking God, if I’m, if I do treatment, what treatment should I be doing?

And I felt really peaceful about chemotherapy. And so when I met with the oncologist and I will answer your question of what to look for, but when I met with him, He told me that the best form of treatment was going to be chemotherapy. And so that put me at ease to know that, okay, I was on the right path.

And and looking back, some things that I would suggest as if you’re someone that fi found out that you are diagnosed with cancer. Some things that I would look for with the doctor is. You have to know your personality types. So for some people they prefer like giving the facts, just tell it to me straight.

Some people prefer a softer approach and want more of a relational aspect or empathy. And what I learned was I, I, if I were to ever have to go that route again I would probably find a different doctor because my doctor was a little bit more even keel and. Not very empathetic. And, that was challenging for me.

I’m about halfway through, I thought about switching doctors, but I wanted to just finish my treatment that way. So I would say, look for someone that you knowing your personality, what’s gonna, what’s gonna fit best for you. Also someone that you feel comfortable asking questions around. If you, if you don’t feel like you can ask them questions, then you need to find somebody else because there’s going to be a lot along the way that you.

You need to have those open conversations. Someone that’s accessible is, is also important and what’s tricky is you don’t know that going into it. So you’re not going to know how accessible they are until you’re a couple appointments in, and you’re trying to, you know, trying to find some time if you’re, if you’re an existing treatment, if you’re an existing patient, that’s getting treatment, they usually push you to the top of the of the chain. So for me right now, being on the other side of it I’ve noticed a lower, you know, response time on things. And so those are probably the primary things that I would look for with the doctor. I didn’t do a second opinion. Maybe, you know, maybe I should have, but I felt pretty peaceful about the treatment plan.

And I really liked the facility and I, there was just a lot of things that for me, made sense to continue going down that path.

Cassandra: [00:14:34] What I hear you saying though, is that if you have any concerns about your doctor or you’re not comfortable, it’s really important to, to get that second opinion. It sounds like you didn’t need the second opinion because you were comfortable and.

I also loved that you talked on knowing yourself and knowing your personality. And if you don’t feel like, you know, how you like receiving information, the people near, you know, the people near, you know, how you respond to bad dues or how, who you’re most comfortable around. And that’s not necessarily what matches you because your doctor.

Sounds like, it would be okay for me, but I do need, I need a little bit of empathy. I’m a very empathetic person, but I cannot work with very empathetic people because I’m like, yeah, it’s too much feelings in here.

Courtney: [00:15:19] There’s too. There’s too much going on. Yeah.

Cassandra: [00:15:21] Much factual is like I need a little bit of love.

I need a little bit of TLC.

Courtney: [00:15:28] What’s funny is when we went to meet him. I went with my husband and my mom. And so when went to my doctor came in. So the first time you met him, he introduced himself and said, hi to my mom and said, how did my husband, and then turned to me and introduced himself to me. And then he said, oh, is this your mom and your dad?

And I should have known then that we should have probably just found a new oncologist because my husband goes, I’m her husband and. He was like, oh, I’m so sorry

Cassandra: [00:15:56] for the record. Courtney’s husband is not older. Like there’s not a less significant aid.

Courtney: [00:16:02] There’s a four, there’s a four year gap

Cassandra: [00:16:04] and he doesn’t look older.

Courtney: [00:16:05] No, he’s got a little more salt and pepper than the average, maybe 40 year olds. But yeah, no way. Was he 25 years older in my mom’s age. And so we had a good laugh, but later on in the appointment, he kept trying to. To fix it and say, well, you know, your mom just looks so young and it’s like, we just stop, stop you don’t, you know, you don’t need to go there.

Looking back, we were like, man, we should’ve known right from the get-go, you know, you got it, got to look for someone different. But you know, as, as the treatments went on, I did have to meet with a couple of their doctors throughout when he was on vacation or wasn’t available. And that was also another sign for me of like, wow, I really felt more comfortable with this person than I did that person.

So like I said, I carried out my treatment plan, but. You know, if I were to need more care in the future, I would look elsewhere. So I would just encourage those of you. Don’t this is such a crucial part. Of the process and you want to feel supported and heard and whatever it is that you’re needing.

So don’t settle. This is really important.

Cassandra: [00:17:09] What happened to your body during treatment,

Courtney: [00:17:11] What didn’t happen to my body during treatment. Every form of medicine will have different side effects. So I was grateful that my medication. And I’ll probably butcher how to pronounce them, but I had Benda bendamustine or bendamustine and Rituxan.

And so for any of you listening, if, you can relate to those, to those forms of drugs My side effects did not include hair loss. So I was very fortunate as a female, not to have to go that route. But I did experience fatigue and loss of appetite and nausea and anxiety and depression.

And I would say the anxiety and depression is something that I’ve dealt with over the years aside from cancer. So I think it really just was heightened during the process. But I do think that the medicine problem. Kicked that up a notch.

Cassandra: [00:18:02] The fact is Courtney has way more to share than we shared with you today.

Today, we focused on how Courtney got diagnosed and took you through the beginning stages of her treatment. Next week, we’ll finish up her treatment and she will give you some awesome tips on self care and for your support system, as well as create an awesome care basket. As always, you can find more information at neededandknown.com or in the show notes.

Thank you for helping Courtney to feel needed and known until you need me next time. Bye.

How to Turn a Dream into a Business

You’ve got a really great idea. And some self-doubt. And tons of fear. But it has the nerve to wake you up first thing every morning with new ideas.

Ericka gets it. She was told “no” many times. And in the middle of a pandemic when her industry was struggling, she tried to buy a business.

In this episode you will learn how to rally your troops to help you fight the “no’s” and some of Ericka’s quick tips to help propel you in your industry.
The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.

Notes and Resources

Hartworks Floral Website

Hartworks Floral Instagram

Transcript

Cassandra: [00:00:00] Hey friend, it’s Cassandra, and this is needed and known the podcast where we show you how to have joyful relationships and meaningful conversations through life-changing stories.

Have you ever wondered what it looks like in real life to pursue a dream? Not the sales pitch of here’s how I make a billion dollars a month, but the real work is done.

Overcoming fear and freaking out to your people dream I’m introducing you to Ericka will share her journey and some friendly advice she’s picked up on her way to being one of the leading florists in Southern California.

Ericka: [00:00:31] Thanks so much for having me.

Cassandra: [00:00:32] So take us on this journey with you. Where did youstart?

Ericka: [00:00:35] Well, I went to school to be an interior designer. So I started out as a commercial interior designer in San Diego. And did that for a couple of years, went on to become a design assistant. And then I just tinkered in a bunch of different positions trying to find something I was passionate about.

Never really landing on it. But I worked as a assistant manager for a bookstore, did a lot of buying and merchandising for them. I worked as a department assistant at one time. I was an event coordinator at one time. So I kind of just bounced around for a while, trying to figure out what I wanted to do.

Cassandra: [00:01:12] That

sounds really fun and beautiful. What really drove

you to do all of that?

Ericka: [00:01:17] I did not want to have. A nine to five. That was like the biggest thing for me. I am a creative and I functioned very well with different experiences. So I don’t want to sit at a desk all day. Sit at a desk for half a day and then go do something else. So I was constantly filling my time. While I was working in the bookstore part-time I was nannying part-time so that I was doing different things and I was able to move around and stuff.

Cassandra: [00:01:48] Were there any like fears or things that you told yourself like to make you believe you had to have a full-time job or what sounds like over a full-time job?

Ericka: [00:01:56] I did that a lot for. Up until I turned 26, I was kicked off my parents’ health insurance. So that was the day I knew I had to go get a real full-time job, a real full-time job.

Cassandra: [00:02:08] The game changer, I need insurance.

Ericka: [00:02:11] I’m such a critical, like a logistical critical thinker that I was like, okay, now’s the time.

I didn’t know what I wanted to do. That was when I went into that design department assistant position, because I was like, I don’t know what I want to do, but I know I need health insurance and I wanted to be able to move out into my own apartment. So I needed to make enough money to be able to afford my own.

So those were the two things that got me there. That’s what happens when you grow up,

Cassandra: [00:02:37] it made you so you, now you’ve got bills, you’ve got insurance, you’ve got things you need to pay for it. How did it feel to take the leap? I remember you going from full-time to part to more part-time so that you had time to do the things that you were realizing you wanted to do, and that you were really made for.

How did that feel? That full-time to part-time transition?

Ericka: [00:02:58] It was relieving, but it was also very stressful for me. I am my biggest critic. I have always been my biggest critic. I hold myself to very high standards very high levels of excellence. So for me it was exciting because I came to a time where I could really focus on things.

I was passionate. For, rather than just trying to collect a paycheck. But it was also difficult because I, I wasn’t quite meeting my own standards and it, I don’t know, it was an interesting season. I was definitely grateful to have people around me who were encouraging me through it because I didn’t really know what I was doing.

I just knew I was ready for the next thing.

Well, that all kind of happened around the time I got married. So my husband’s been one of my biggest supporters. It just got a little cheat teary-eyed, which is so weird. But he’s been one of my biggest supporters and like I said, I’m hyper critical of myself. So there was a lot of times that I questioned what I was doing.

He was always in my ear telling me that it’s going to be okay, we’re gonna figure it out together. We’re going to be able to take the next step together. So he was always a huge support of me. I also had my parents who Or just, you know, in my ear that just because I want things to be done perfectly doesn’t mean that they always have to go perfectly.

And I think you know, being a believer, that’s kind of one of the cool things that the Lord shows us that we don’t have to do everything perfectly, even though my standard is really high. It doesn’t have to go that way all the time. And so it’s really been the people around me that have come to me and reminded me of these things.

Cause I need these reminders daily.

Cassandra: [00:04:51] I think, you know, perfectionism is this illusion, right? And it, it always evades us. Cause it doesn’t, it doesn’t exist in our own power. Like it’s not something that we can get to. And so you have this image of your head of what it looks like. So it sounds like you kind of learned to break through.

In this process, which sounds very challenging because it’s your, it’s your life, right? It’s your apartment, it’s your food. It’s everything, because you’re hoping that it works. So. Did all of the heavens and angels sing once you started calling yourself a wedding florist, what happened in

this next? But I haven’t been angels if you mean everyone around me, then yes, that definitely happened because it was kind of crazy.

Ericka: [00:05:35] So I’m a wedding and event florist. And I have, I technically started playing with flowers. I say, because it’s an art form where we’re practicing all the time. But I started playing with flowers when I was in high school. I took my first class and just as a continued education class for fun, but I really enjoyed it.

And I learned the fundamentals, which this was over 10 years now a little bit longer. So. You know, working on this for a long time, but I, I picked up kind of this part-time, you know, doing this on my own three years ago or three and a half years ago now. And it was so funny because a friend encouraged me to to do it for a wedding that she was coordinating and I came alongside her and did the flowers and.

Whoa like this, this is people’s careers. Like this is something that you could make a living doing. I was so fulfilled. I was so encouraged and we were out in the beating hot sun, you know, creating an arch at the ceremony and I was just so fulfilled. So that was kind of the start of me being a wedding florist, but it wasn’t enough to be full-time.

I took sometime working a full-time job and doing that as well. And it wasn’t until I came to this new opportunity, which we’re talking about now, where I finally decided, okay, no, like this is really who I am, and this is the career path that I can see myself going down for. A long time.

Cassandra: [00:07:14] I think, I think that’s so that’s the way that it goes for a lot of people who, who make that leap right. It’s I’m going to stick my toe. I think, you know, the popular terms are side hustle and you know, those kinds of things, what it really is, is like exploring something that you’re really passionate about in your, you know, any extra time people can get really hung up. Like you said, like on the perfectionist or like, oh, I’m not a wedding florist.

Well, wedding Flores was always. What did, what was the term you used, you playing with flowers, somebody who plays with flowers, like that starts somewhere. So whether you’re in your teens or your twenties or your thirties, or even your fifties or sixties, you have to start playing with them or whatever it is somewhere.

So I love that. That’s what you did. You were like, this is, oh, this is that thing. It’s it’s a beautiful thing that you dove into that as opposed to like, people will feel that it breaks my heart. Cause people will feel that. And then they’re like, this is amazing. And then immediately bring it back down.

Like it’s too bad. I can’t do this more often. And you’re like, but you could, like, you just have to, you have to make the time, create the environment for it. Tell people that you did some flowers and I really love. So you start gearing up to buy a business. Can you walk us through that experience?

Ericka: [00:08:26] Definitely. How much time do we have? No, I’m just kidding. Yeah, so through the wonderful year of 2020 it kinda came down to a point where All weddings were canceled or postponed. I had some small elopements, but ultimately it was a year of pause for our industry. And I was kind of trying to decide what route I wanted to go.

Honestly, I was like, am I in this? Or am I done? Those are, those were my questions. And my husband and I started looking into, you know, what would send some next steps and opportunities before me. And I. This sounds crazy. Heard about a website where people sell their businesses. I found a business that I wanted to buy and I called them up and went and met them and saw the space.

And that’s kind of where the journey began. Over the next eight months. We worked through contracts, waste agreements. I had to bring in a lawyer and accountant. I had to get investors. I had to do a lot of work to finally be able to say that I purchased a business. I bought a business and there was so many.

Hills and valleys, there was ups and downs. There was good moments, stressful moments. There were seasons months where I was like, is this even happening or is this not happening?

Cassandra: [00:09:54] Okay. So when you, so you’ve started this process and so do you, do you have like an agent or do you just go like, Hey, I want to, I want to buy a business.

Like, how does that. How does that work?

Ericka: [00:10:09] Oh, this is gonna be a whole nother episode. I learned.

Cassandra: [00:10:11] Teach us, teach us

Ericka: [00:10:14] technically, when you are selling a business, you can do private. It’s just like, I don’t know if it’s just like, I never bought a home, but it’s similar to buying a home. You could sell it yourself or you can hire a business broker to sell it for you. So that was one of the deep valleys that we experienced in this process.

Was she. Had hired a broker to help her sell the business. Long story short, he wasn’t actually a broker. And I, I don’t know how to tell this in a condensed version, but for the most part he ghosted me and he didn’t, he didn’t return it.

Cassandra: [00:10:49] So the agent that was representing her was like, you’re not a good fit for this.

Ericka: [00:10:54] Yeah. Actually I found out. So when you buy a business, you can have a representative and they can have a representative, I guess, you know, similar to real religious Realtree. So in. It’s well, to get to the nitty gritty, they get a 10% commission and either the one person gets it, who’s selling and buying and representing both people.

Or they have to split it between two brokers and they each get the 5%. So this broker wanted it all for himself. So he was negotiating with me, but he wasn’t returning my calls. So I picked up the phone and found another broker and called him and said, what am I doing this wrong? What’s going on? This guy offered to call the original broker and do some investigative work for me, pro bono, which was amazing.

I had been waiting weeks for a response and within 20 minutes he called me back and said, I just talked to him and he said, you’re not qualified. They do not want to go with you. And they’re not interested. And I thought, what the heck? Like, okay, that’s my answer. This is not going to work.

Cassandra: [00:12:04] You’d met with her.

Ericka: [00:12:05] Right.

Cassandra: [00:12:05] And the business owner and had good rapport. You felt like you were vibing and like, okay, this is going to be a thing. Kind of like, oh, this is something like, oh, we can see the magic. And then you’re not a good fit

Ericka: [00:12:19] from based on what the business broker said. So I thought, okay, I’m out. My husband came home from work.

I told him the story. And he said, you know what? I, I’d never been in direct contact with her. The owner only this broker, he said, find an email address online, send an email and say, Hey, I’m so sorry if I wasted your time. If you aren’t interested, then, you know, I totally understand. I was really excited for this.

And if you change your mind in the future, let me. Signed it with my signature, which had my cell phone number on it. And within five minutes, she called me and said, what? That is not the case. I loved you. You were adorable. You’re totally the kind of person that I would want to continue my legacy take over my business.

I want to move forward with you. I said, okay, we can do that, but I don’t want to work with. And we continued moving forward. Just turn I working on this deal.

Cassandra: [00:13:13] This is a classic case of no does not mean no,

Ericka: [00:13:16] exactly. And let me tell you that was the first of probably four nos that I experienced on that eight month journey.

Cassandra: [00:13:24] Are you able to share any of those?

Ericka: [00:13:27] Of course she, so I took over a 2000 square foot, a studio space. It’s got two floral studios in it. Two offices, two restrooms. Two entries. It’s, it’s really cool. It has all of her stuff in it. And I, that was a part of my acquisition. And she had been in this space for 19 years previous to me coming in.

And they had gone through three different building owners and she didn’t have a, and. And I said, well, I’m not gonna take this over. The space and all of this stuff. It, she has built in coolers. She has industrial sinks. All of these things that I haven’t had in my previous space are things that I am acquiring.

So I want to ensure that there’s a proper lease in place. Yeah, makes sense. Right. So we spent three months trying to get a hold of the landlord, calling, emailing, texting with no response. And it was another hurdle for us to get through because to her she’d been here for 19 years. That’s fine.

Can you just be okay with that? And to me. You know, no, I need to have a proper lease. I want to know that when I move in, they’re not going to evict me the next month. I want to know that, you know, they’re okay with a new person coming in. And that was really important to me. So that was the second half of our eight month journey was spent trying to get a proper lease in place.

And Literally I signed the lease and the next day I signed a contract or maybe vice versa. I signed a contract with her and the next day I signed the lease for the space because it was that important to me. And that’s all we were waiting for to close the deal.

Cassandra: [00:15:13] Having these nos come at you at any point, are you feeling like I might fail at this?

Ericka: [00:15:19] Yes. Yes. Cassandra, I did feel like I might fail at this and ultimately it’s It’s kind of a crazy story because. I was okay with that. It was totally something that I

Cassandra: [00:15:35] Wait…. A perfectionist is okay with failing?!. This is a whole separate episode. No tell seriously though. How did that tell us what you think happened inside or what you were hearing from around you?

How did you

Ericka: [00:15:48] not to be a Jesus freak, but totally my relationship with God. I, I handed this over to him every single morning and I said, Months wanting to fall asleep at 10 o’clock at night, exhausted to be up at 3:00 AM with thoughts and questions, and I’d pull out my phone and I’d be jotting down notes and things I need to work on, or, you know I’m very grateful for other people in the industry, connections I’ve made.

And so who should I call tomorrow and ask about where I’m at or. You know, what are resources that I can, I can use to make this happen? Because there’s just so many unknowns and I, I didn’t know what the outcome was going to be, but like I said, I, I. Gave it back to God every morning. And I said, okay, if this is going to happen, then it’s going to happen.

And I would love for it to happen. And I’m working really hard to make it happen. But if it doesn’t happen, then, you know, we figure out the next thing, 2020 has been a crazy year. And I think a lot of people experienced that. What am I doing with my life? Do we move out of state? Do we start a new career?

Like what direction do we want to go with our, with our career path or family or whatever? So, you know, for us, it was like, okay, if this is going to happen, that’d be great. But if it’s not going to happen, then I’m ready to move on to the next thing, which is why, when I say. The broker that I found called and said, it wasn’t going to work.

I was like, okay, great. That’s a door that’s closed and we’re going to move on to the next one. But it’s definitely, I mean, don’t give me too much credit because it’s not, I am a perfectionist and I do want everything to go swimmingly. But this is just, this is just a different experience for me to be like, okay, if it’s not going to happen, then it’s just not going to.

Cassandra: [00:17:41] That’s great. So literally that day that you got the call within 20 minutes, that’s that cracks me up. That he called you back within 20 minutes, but he called you back within 20 minutes. And he said, Nope, they you’re not qualified for, they they’ve said you’re not qualified for this.

So that’s what happened. Okay. And then you tell your husband that, and he’s like, That seems strange.

Cause I think you’re very qualified, seemed like that was going to work out just in a little love note and see what happens. And you know, my husband’s always like you don’t get, if you don’t ask what other questions from friends were helpful during this time, as, as opposed to like, Hey Ericka, how’s that florist thing going?

You know what I mean? That’s not a helpful question.

Ericka: [00:18:22] I started this thing. In the middle-ish of that journey where I, in the beginning, I didn’t know, like, is this going to happen at all? And then there got to a point where she actually had a couple bids and I was one of them and I turned it into her.

And I was waiting for her response. I was very passionate about continuing her legacy and pushing on what she’s built. She started this company before I was born. So it’s been around San Diego for over 30 years. And. In the middle of this journey, I actually started a close friends group on my Instagram and I had 25 or 30 people on there.

And I just used it as like a daily journal. Like, Hey, today I did this or today I didn’t hear from this person or whatever. And that was honestly one of the coolest things I could’ve done because. Instead of blasting it out to everyone on my social media, it was a very small group of people that I trusted that I, I loved that loved me.

And that encouraged me. And with any post I was, I mean, I think there was like, it started out with maybe 15 or 17 people, and then it ended up growing. I’d mentioned it to people and it ended up growing to about 30 people, but I would share an update. Daily or every other day. And I would just get DMS constantly from people who I didn’t even know were paying attention.

You know, they’re like, oh yeah, add me. And I added them on. And then, you know, they’d be texting me like, oh my gosh, like you’re such a boss, babe. Or, you know, I can’t believe you’re working so hard on this. Or I have a lot of self doubt. So just hearing other people say you’re doing a great job, means so much to me.

And there was so many people around me that were doing that when once we ended up closing the deal even afterwards I had a hard time believing that this even happened. And even to this day, I’m like, wait, what? Like this is mine. But over the last few months, since we. I have rebranded, I’ve taken over this 2000 square foot space.

As I said, that was lavender and a bit of a hoarder’s nightmare with all of the stuff she’s accumulated over the years. And I had people here every weekend helping me organize paint, go through stuff. So just that constant support of people around you. Was so helpful in times where I was not giving myself enough grace, there were others around me who were like, Hey, no, you’ve got this and you’re doing the best you can.

Or you don’t even have control of that. So, you know, let it go and move on to the next thing.

Cassandra: [00:21:07] I love that. That’s so good. There are, you know, you’ve got your network, right? And you’ve got the people, you have people who are close to you, who will support you and encourage you. And there are people who are close to you who are going to ask those hard questions and are going to discourage you and with good intention, right?

Like they have, their heart is in the right place. They want the best for you, but they’re like looking out for you in a way that’s harmful. And so for that situation, you created a safety net, basically a bubble of this is what I need. This is what I’m going to get. And I’m going to protect myself.

In our culture, there’s a lot of. Just put it out there. Who cares? What other people say? Well, when you care, what other people say you care it matters. And especially when you’re going into an industry where it does matter what people think, because you want to have pretty arrangements.

And I’m so proud of you for doing that because I don’t think. Enough people protect themselves in that way. And I love that you have intentionally surrounded yourself with people who are supportive and who love you, and who are going to tell you all the things you need to hear because they know your heart and they know your brain.

And they know, I know what Ericka is saying to herself, and I’m going to tell her she’s a boss, babe.

Ericka: [00:22:21] Yeah. And I, I put that out there. Like I started using. Responses with positive notes because that’s, , I don’t want you to come off reading something that I say as negative. So I started with a positive note and I think people are super receptive of that.

They see that and want to do the same.

Cassandra: [00:22:40] So what advice do you have for people, for individuals who want to pursue a dream? What have you learned that you would like to impart?

Ericka: [00:22:47] There are people. Around you who love themself and love what they do enough to share it with you. People love being complimented.

So I just walk around and I meet new people and I’m like, oh my gosh. Yeah. I do know you. I saw you on Instagram, or I know you partnered with this person for this event or whatever, compliment them, and then ask them to meet up or catch up or grab coffee. I want to know more about you or whatever that is.

I have found so many fruitful relationships by just asking someone new to go grab coffee. I am a big networker, so I go to networking events a lot. I find that they are actually an enjoyable day off to me, which I know some people do not enjoy them and they would feel very differently. I’ll go to a networking event on a day off, I’ll meet a new person.

And next thing you know, I’m chatting with a florist. Who’s opened two retail locations actually bought her first one as a business, just like I’m doing. And I spent an hour FaceTiming with her and learning everything that she learned. For example, just because you’re buying a space with a bunch of junk in it doesn’t mean it’s valuable.

It could be just junk that now you have to go through. So I think my encouragement would be to find people that you admire what they’re doing and just going into them. Cause they’re more than happy to share the information that they’ve,

Cassandra: [00:24:16] That’s really good. That is really good. You know, I’m a big fan of reading and a big fan of learning and growing.

So I was reading a book by Brian Grazer who helps start a production company. And then Bob Goff and Donald Miller. Now Bob Goff and Donald Miller know each other, but they don’t know Brian Grazer to my knowledge . And they also the same thing they all said, most people genuinely want to help you.

If you ask, they will do their best to help you, right? Like people aren’t going to give you a millions of dollars, but they will give you their time. And so I think that is such a valuable, valuable tip.

What advice would you have for the dreamers, friends and family?

Ericka: [00:24:55] I think that what I learned through this experience is everyone moves at their own pace.

And your. Goals or your vision of next steps might not be that person’s vision for their next steps. So to give them grace and understanding and encouragement because we all function different differently. I, for example working from home, I am a very slow worker. I get very distracted with household chores and so I would come home some days and my husband.

What do you, what’d you get done today? Like, what are you working on? And I’d be like, oh, well I did the dishes or, you know, whatever. And he just had so much grace and understanding with, okay, well, that’s where she’s at today. And let me tell you, I now. An office and I spend eight to 10 hours here, which is not healthy.

I’m working on my boundaries. It’s just a very busy season. And I get so much stuff done here because it’s just a more productive space for me. So I’m just grateful that he had the space to give me that grace and understanding,

Cassandra: [00:26:06] and we know that you’re leaving it there because you just said you don’t know how to take it home very well with you. So that’s good. Eight to 10 hours for a new business. Sounds okay to start. And you know, so this is that age, 10 hour, seven days. We can talk about this offline. Do you have anything that you want to add?

Ericka: [00:26:25] There was one other piece of advice I had for an individual looking to pursue something.

Make sure it’s something that you’re truly passionate about because ultimately When it gets down to doing something you love. And like I just said, working long, long hours you have to make sure it’s worth it for you, for your family, for your, you know, money and All that kind of stuff, because it, it takes a lot of time.

There’s a quote I love, which says entrepreneur is a person who’s up late working a hundred hours for themselves to avoid working 40 hours for someone else,

Cassandra: [00:27:01] Whether you’re the dreamer or the friend of a dreamer. I know that Ericka had some great notes for you. Remember, you can always get those in the show.

Or by going directly to needed a known.com/podcast. Thank you for helping Ericka be needed and known, and you know, the drill. If you enjoy this podcast, please leave a review. Until you need me next time.

What happens when the perfect home burns down?

You need to go home. Your house is on fire.

She stared at her grocery cart and son in disbelief at the words she heard. How is this possible? She was home just a few hours ago and everything was fine.

When I see a story on the news of a house fire, I wonder what happens next? What would I do if they were my friend or loved one? In this episode, you’ll meet Jamie. She will share everything about what happens when a home burns down from insurance phone calls to what your loved ones you actually need.
This episode could be emotionally triggering as she briefly mentions her pets. Listener discretion is advised.
The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.

Resources

American Red Cross – What to Do After a Fire

Introduction

[00:00:00] Cassandra: On this episode of needed and known, I’m introducing you to my friend, Jamie, while she was running errands, Jamie’s house burnt down.

[00:00:08] We see stories on the news of homes burning down. And I know I’m not the only one to wonder where did they go and what happens next? Jamie, will share everything from insurance phone calls to what your loved ones you actually need.

[00:00:19] And it’s not anything I thought of as you know, I encourage guests to be who they are. So I want to warn you that this episode could be emotionally triggering as she briefly mentions her pets. Listener (and reader) discretion is advised.

The Perfect Home

This is the one. So it’s happy and it’s peaceful.
Jamie, describing her house

[00:00:32] Can you tell us a little bit about buying your first home?

[00:00:36] Jamie: Yeah, so it was a long process. It took us about four years to be able to go through the entire process, saving up getting credits getting approved, finding a house, being able to get an offer in and a house. The whole thing, you know, we didn’t come from backgrounds that kind of gave us that foundation. So it was just. Learn as we go.

[00:00:56] It was one of those things that I told my husband, I want to be a homeowner. And he looked at me like, I was crazy. Like, we’re never gonna own a house. Like we don’t do that. You know, we’re paycheck to paycheck people. And I was like, no, this doesn’t make sense. So it was a huge goal and it took forever. We actually ended up using a first-time home buyers program in our County because we couldn’t get approved by ourselves. So it was a long process. And then even buying the house, people were like, no, the process is going to take too long. We’re not going to accept your offer. There’s too many what ifs. And so it was a long time.

[00:01:32] So this was like, when we found our house, it was like, this is it. We made it like this. Everything came to life. So it was super exciting for us. And it was something that we didn’t expect for ourselves previously, nobody around us expected. And it was, I don’t know, we just kind of did it.

[00:01:49] Cassandra: That’s awesome.

[00:01:50] Can you tell us a little bit about your home?

[00:01:53] Jamie: It’s modest it’s small it’s in a subdivision, a cookie cutter community, three bedrooms, two bathrooms. Very small for us. We have four kids. My husband had three before we got married. Now we added another one. So there are six of us in the house. And then my mom kind of jumped along.

[00:02:10] So it’s crowded. There’s a lot of us in it. But it’s happy. So it’s like our peaceful spot. It’s everything we liked. It’s got a lot of light in it. It’s concrete black, it’s got high ceiling. So all of those things, we’re like, oh, it’s what we would have pictured if we could have, I guess, had a choice, not like we really had much of one when we were shopping, but it was like, when we saw that it was like, this is it. This is the one. So it’s happy and it’s peaceful.

The Phone Call

…You need to go home right now. The fire department is at your house.
Jamie’s Mom

[00:02:40] Cassandra: That’s awesome. Okay. So what happened one day you’re shopping at target and everything changed with a phone call?

[00:02:49] Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. So I’ll give a little bit of context before that we have a stove that had been acting up. There was a couple of times that I came into the kitchen.

Once I came from out of town, we hadn’t even been in the house and I was like, I started smelling something. I’m like, what’s going on? And the stove was on, but we hadn’t cooked. And I’m like, That’s weird, but I didn’t really think anything of it. So I started getting in like this OCD habit of checking everything, touching all the burners is this on all the time, because I started becoming paranoid.

[00:03:17] So I was actually at a doctor’s appointment that morning. And after my doctor’s appointment, I went to Target with my son and we were just kind of browsing the aisles. And my mom called me and she was like, Have you talked to anybody, have you been home? I’m like, no, I’m at target. And she said, well, I keep on getting these phone calls.

[00:03:35] I think they’re prank phone calls. And somebody is saying that your house is burning down and I’m like, Why are you getting calls? Because she didn’t, she didn’t nothing links her to here. She slept here, but all of her mail goes somewhere else. And she has an out-of-state phone number. It doesn’t make sense to call her.

[00:03:52] So she’s like, it’s probably just a prank call. I have your uncle go over there because he lives down the road. And so she called me back about 15 minutes later, she was like, no, you need to go home right now. The fire departments at your house. And I don’t even know what you can think at that time I grabbed my son.

[00:04:07] I left the cart with all the groceries, which is like such an irresponsible, not me. Right. And ran out of the store. I must’ve looked like I was probably robbing the place, the speed I ran out of there and got home as fast as I could. I was doing like a hundred, like my mind was blank. I mean, I couldn’t even think of anything.

[00:04:27] What is, what does this mean? The fire department is at my house, like. That’s never a scenario in all of my overthinking that I ever thought of.

[00:04:34] Cassandra: It sounds like you were just following your last direction. Your mom was like, go home and you were like, I have to go home. My house is burning down. Goodbye groceries, like going straight out the door.

[00:04:45] Jamie: Yeah. So it wasn’t until I was on the interstate, my husband called me. He was like, I just got a call from your uncle. What’s going on? I was like, I’m on my way home right now. And he, the worst timing ever, he just blurted out. He’s like, Oh, the pets are dead. And I was driving like, “This is the wrong time to tell me!! What are you talking about? How do you know?” He was like, “I don’t know. He just told me.” And I was like, “How does he know?!” And I was just like, Saying nothing all the way home. My son’s in the back, mommy, what’s wrong. And I couldn’t even get words.

I pull up to my house and there’s fire trucks there and it’s a big scene and there’s people down my street and I’m like, what’s going on?

[00:05:28] And I’m looking on the outside of my house and I’m going. I thought they said there was a fire.

Where’s the Fire

[00:05:33] Cassandra: Oh. So you can’t even see anything.

[00:05:35] Jamie: Not from where I was. So our kitchen is where it started and that was a further back behind the garage. So if I would’ve seen the sides of the house that weren’t covered up by neighbors, trees, I would have been like, Oh, okay.

[00:05:47] Like windows are blown out. Things like that. But from the front end, like other than that, all the windows looking really smoky. It’s fine. Like the house is right there. So they wouldn’t let me [00:06:00] go in. At first they had to finish everything. And so he was probably about an hour before I actually stepped in.

[00:06:06] And in the meantime it was like the firefighters gave me a bag, like a trash bag. And they were like, yeah, these are your pets. Here you go. I’m like, cool. What do I do with this? Like, I don’t even know what’s going on at this point. Like processing, like thanks, dude. Merry Christmas you too. And when we finally went inside, it was just like, This is not what you expect a fire to look like, but it’s also not what you expect your house to look like.

[00:06:34] Cassandra: So what did it look like?

[00:06:36]Jamie: When you walk in the front room? So we have a big open area, kitchen living room, dining room area, and it was dark. First of all, there was no electricity to the house. The roof, like the ceiling, I guess not the roof completely in.

[00:06:52] Cassandra: Was it dark outside?

[00:06:54]Jamie: No, it was light outside, but it had gone all the way to the rafters, but all of the [00:07:00] windows.

[00:07:00] Yeah. All the windows were smoked over. So there was like soot, like a layer of soot and there was no lights inside and all you could see is just what was coming in from the door that had been kicked in. And it was just, the ceiling was down on the floor, insulation everywhere, chard everything, all my kitchen cabinets, half the ceiling, everything just on a big Ash pile.

[00:07:23] And I was just like, what? And then on top of that, it was wet, which is something I wasn’t expecting. But when the firefighters came in all the water, so it was like flooded city floating. Insulated ashy mess. And I was like, this is my house, but it’s not my house. Like I see part of my kitchen table is still there, but this isn’t, it is, but it’s not, it was like a weird, like this radiation.

[00:07:50] Yeah, exactly. Like I’m walking through this, like not fully grasping that it’s mine. Yeah, I guess so it was, it was very weird. And then [00:08:00] going, you know, Back through like the hallway, the kitchen, like the kitchen was gone. Yeah, just having to step over things. And it was just like, it’s crazy. And the smell, it smelled like burnt Tupperware, like just permeating.

[00:08:17] And I’m just like, what just happened? I was just here like six hours ago. It was wild.

Hurricane Saved Us

So those honestly, if it weren’t for the hurricane, all of that would have been gone.

[00:08:23] Cassandra: That is so wild because it’s so fast, right? It’s not like. You know, we grew up with hurricanes. So you got like days warning. There’s water coming. It’s going to be windy. You can prepare. It’s like it’s a matter of hours.

[00:08:38] Jamie: Exactly. And speaking of hurricane, that is actually why the things that did kind of make it through, made it through. It happened about just a couple of days after hurricane Irma. So that was projected to come straight to Tampa. And I’m a planner. So I bought all of these super heavy duty like plastic locking containers and everything that I thought, [00:09:00] well, you know, if my roof comes off, these are the things that are going to protect my things.

[00:09:04] So they were all still in there because we were spared from Irma. We never even lost power, but For this and apparently protected against heat against soot against water, against everything. So all my photos like my son’s baby book, my jewelry, like all the things that you’re like if I ever, you know, had to run into my house at the last minute, these are the things I would take.

[00:09:28] Those were all in those plastic bins. So those honestly, if it weren’t for the hurricane, all of that would have been gone.

[00:09:36] Cassandra: That’s crazy. What room were those things in? Like where they, they were away from the fire. I’m assuming they were out of the kitchen or…

[00:09:43]Jamie: they were out of the kitchen. They were back in my room, but in my rooms at the end of the house.

[00:09:48] So it’s kind of like a long floor plan where like, it kind of goes along and and like, What does that hallway? So like, what is the word? So it’s at the end of that, but what happened was, and we didn’t know, not something I would foresee is that when all of the firefighters came in, because we have these high ceilings, when they sprayed all the water in them, Within the next day or two, all of the ceilings came down in the house.

[00:10:16] Is there anything that happened? Yup. Anything that wasn’t wrecked in the house became ruined. So it was just, it collapsed on to everything. It was a mess, but everything was safe because the soot when The air conditioning, I guess, was running through the whole thing. So it took all of the smoke from the kitchen and covered everything in the house.

[00:10:37] So everything in every room was covered in a layer of soot and then of course water. And then within the next couple of days, the ceilings on top of it, water, mushy mess everywhere. So, but the pictures, the important things that I would like. Really want to cherish. All of those were protected, like amazingly.

[00:10:57] Yeah. And if it weren’t for the hurricane, it wouldn’t have been.

Sleeping After the Fire

[00:11:02] Cassandra: so, okay. So your house burns down, you’ve got your pictures. What do you do that first night? Where do you like? I I’ve always wondered. Okay. Now these people you’re, you, you have no place to sleep. Arguably, do you stay with a family member or do you, what do you do?

[00:11:20] What did you do?

[00:11:21]Jamie: [00:11:21] We ended up staying in a hotel. We you’re trying to figure that out as well, because we don’t really, we were the stable ones. Like people stayed at our house and people were staying at our house because of Irma because they didn’t have power. And so we’re like, where are we going? Nobody has power.

[00:11:37] And nobody has room and we don’t really have money to go to these places. So our insurance ended up putting up us in a hotel for two weeks, and that’s where we stayed at. We walked in there looking like a bunch of bums covered in soot and smelling like smoke. And that was home. That was the new home.

[00:11:55] Cassandra: [00:11:55] So you were there for two weeks. What’s high level. We [00:12:00] don’t have to get into the details, but I’m a nerd. And I think the people listening are probably nerds. If they’re listening to this w what high-level overview, what happens with your insurance? So you’re like, At what, what, at what point did you call, were you like, well, I’m standing at my house and it’s burning down.

[00:12:15] Are you like soaking it up after going, Oh my God, I have to call insurance. Like how, what happened?

[00:12:20] Jamie: [00:12:20] In fact, I was the first one. I had a metal file container with all of my, you know, also locking and everything with all of my important documents, had everything in there because of the hurricane. And. As soon as I got to the house, I was like, we have to call our insurance company because aren’t you supposed to let them know immediately?

[00:12:36] Like I took it a little bit too, literally that within, within two hours of being at the house, I found the paperwork. I called them. I filed the claim. And yeah, so basically they had an adjuster come out, but it ended up being weeks later because of Irma. They were so backed up. They basically said, well, you can stay in the hotel for two weeks.

[00:12:55] And then after that, we can’t cover it anymore. So you need to find a place to live. [00:13:00] And good luck and they kind of just left it up to us. So we ended up staying almost an hour away. They were like, just to find somewhere, find somebody that will rent to you find somewhere furnished because we’re not going to pay for furnishings, like find all of these things.

[00:13:15] And it’s up to you now because you can’t stay in the hotel anymore. And we did. We moved in, about an hour away and stayed there for two months. And then right before Christmas, we had to get out because it was kind of like an Airbnb. And they were like, yeah, we have people coming. So you got to get out.

[00:13:30] And there was nowhere else to find because of course it’s Christmas in Florida and there’s nowhere. So we ended up going to see my dad for like a week and a half I’m in Wisconsin. We’re like, Ooh, we have nowhere to go. So let’s make a vacation out of it. And we did, and we came back, rented another house.

[00:13:45] And then went back to a hotel again and then finally made it back home after six months.

[00:13:50]Cassandra: [00:13:50] So you were out of your home, was it about six months from burn to move back in just over six months?

[00:13:58] Jamie: [00:13:58] Yeah.

[00:14:00] [00:13:59] Cassandra: [00:13:59] Okay. Wow. So that’s like. Building a new home. That’s how long that takes essentially.

[00:14:04]Jamie: [00:14:04] And we moved in. It wasn’t even completely finished yet, but our insurance had run out.

And we moved in. It wasn’t even completely finished yet, but our insurance had run out.

[00:14:10] So we were like, yeah, y’all better have our house kind of ready. And they did. And they continued working on it for about another six months.

[00:14:18] Cassandra: [00:14:18] So what else did they do? What else did they have left to do when you moved in?

[00:14:23] Jamie: [00:14:23] They still had electrical stuff to, to left. They still had like all of the trimming and like finishing and all the little things.

[00:14:31] Like backsplashes some more tile work, things like that, but it was like able to be lived in while they did all these things. We just kind of had to work around people for the next several months.

Insurance Questions

[00:14:43] Cassandra: [00:14:43] Did you just rebuild the exact same floor plan?

[00:14:46] Jamie: [00:14:46] Exactly. So when the home burned down, it was down to the studs basically is how we had to tear it all down.

[00:14:52] So the foundation is the same. The garage is the same. The studs are the same, everything else is brand new.

[00:14:58] Cassandra: [00:14:58] Gotcha.

[00:14:59] So I’m [00:15:00] asking all these like nerdy questions, but now I’m like, okay, so wait, are you paying for your rental and your mortgage at the same time?

[00:15:08] Jamie: [00:15:08] No. So the insurance there’s a portion of the insurance called ale.

[00:15:11] So that covers yes, very important to have, as it turns out, I had no idea what it was, but that covers your living expenses. When you’re out of your house due to a claim always get extra. We found out that’s why we had to move back in our house because we were approaching the six month Mark and we were out of funds.

[00:15:31] So for the last. Month or so old that was out of pockets. So thankfully it took us about that long where, you know, but yeah, we still to pay the mortgage and then thankfully they covered most of that living expense.

I’m Not a Material Girl

So immediately, it was, it was the shock of not having anything like having to go to Walmart and buy a new toothbrush should not like not having the smallest things that you take for granted to being angry
Jamie, the night of the fire

[00:15:45] Cassandra: [00:15:45] Okay. Okay. Well, that’s a kick in the teeth, but I mean, yeah. That’s what happens? My goodness.

[00:15:53] Okay. So it’s been a little bit cleansing for you cause you had stuff because the environments that we come [00:16:00] from, everybody saves everything. Cause we’re scared. We’re not going to have more And you might need that one day. I feel like that’s the most common phrase in my family is why do you never know? You might need that one day. It’s a dollar. I can replace it for a dollar, like it’s going to be okay. So what happens, like what sort of cleansing happened with that for you?

[00:16:20] Jamie: [00:16:20] So immediately, it was, it was the shock of not having anything like having to go to Walmart and buy a new toothbrush should not like not having the smallest things that you take for granted to being angry to all of a sudden, one day I called my dad.

[00:16:35] I’m like, you know what I feel okay about this. Like, I have made peace with losing everything and I realized that I don’t need these things in order to continue my life. I’ve had them. I haven’t had them for a month now. And I’m still okay. I’m still thriving. I’m still living my life. So I made my peace with that.

[00:16:53] And so now that we’re back in here, it’s kind of like, well, we can appreciate things and we [00:17:00] can have things, but I don’t let things have us, if that makes sense. So. It’s easier to kind of like let these things go rather than to be so attached to them. Like I was before, because we were very much like that, like, Oh, we might need this, you know, weird thing that you can probably find a dollar tree, but we don’t might not have the extra dollar next week to go get it.

[00:17:19] So I’m going to go store this away in the garage. I’m going to store this under the bed. It’s kind of given me a different mindset of what is really needed what’s wanted and what’s just extra. And now all the extra stuff makes me very anxious. Yeah. I don’t to hear it. Like, I don’t want it.

[00:17:41] Cassandra: [00:17:41] And that’s, that might not be everybody’s experience, but that was your experience just because. That you, it sounds like you kind of already had that in the back of your mind as like, well, I’m, you were wrestling with it maybe. And so it was like a forced cleansing of stuff.

[00:17:55] Jamie: [00:17:55] Definitely. Cause it’s always one of those things like, Oh one day I’m going to get rid of all this and I’m going to be, you know, comfortable enough.

[00:18:01] But I was never at that point that I could just be so reckless to be like, yeah, let me throw it all away. And just hope that I’m good for tomorrow or next week.

Show Up for a Friend Through Trauma

[00:18:08] Cassandra: [00:18:08] Right. Okay. So switching gears, if someone’s recently lost their home, what would you say to them?

[00:18:18] Jamie: [00:18:18] This is one of the things that it’s…

It’s so nice to say, “Oh yeah, let me know if you need anything.” And it’s great. But I also feel like it’s kind of empty because there were a lot of people that said that to me. And so when I tried to call upon them, it was like, ‘Oh yeah, but I’m busy this week’ or, ‘Yeah, I can’t really do that right now.’ And for me, it was having somebody to watch my son because I had to come back to the house.

I had to try to pick through items… and I didn’t have anyone to even keep [my son]…

So I could do that without exposing him to all this. So it was just little things that I didn’t feel like people were really there. Like when they say, Oh yeah, let [00:19:00] me know if you need anything.

[00:19:01] So I feel like if somebody, you know, has experienced something traumatic, let them know how you can help. If you aren’t able to be there completely, whenever they need to. To have somebody for them, let them know, Hey, if you need a meal, let me know, and I can cook it. Or if you need a gift card here, something to, you know, McDonald’s or whatever the case may be let them know specific ways that you can be there for them.

[00:19:23] Or if you are going to kind of give them a, let me know if you need me live up to it, just kind of be there and understand that they’re not going to be okay to talk about it right away and answer all the questions and kind of go through that whole. Traumatic process that sometimes I don’t, I couldn’t even form full sentences.

[00:19:43] I don’t think for a couple of weeks afterwards, I was just like in zombie mode, like, I don’t know. So just being there, honoring your word, honoring your commitments, and I guess having concrete ideas of how you can assist. I think those are all really [00:20:00] important things.

[00:20:01]Cassandra: [00:20:01] I think that’s really great advice.

[00:20:02] I’m I. I’m good at thinking of some ideas, but I can’t think of all the ideas. So I’m wondering if it would be helpful for me to say, like, what, what are your, like, what are your next steps so that I can figure, is that something that I could ask? Like, what are, what are you doing next? And how can I support you?

[00:20:22] Jamie: [00:20:22] I think that’s really nice to have too, because you’re getting that feedback in that, putting somebody in the moment, because I would get calls or texts like, Hey, what do you need right now? Or what are your kids need? And I’m like, well, I’m living out of hotel, so I really don’t even have any room for anything.

[00:20:34] But thank you for asking, because people would be like, Oh, you can have some clothes or here’s my kid’s old toys, but it’s more about, and it comes from a good place. I’m sure. But in, you know, my reaction where I’m like, I can’t take anything else. I don’t have room for it. There are six of us in hotel room, you know?

[00:20:51] We can’t take it, then it comes off more offensive. Like, Oh, I tried to offer her something and it, you know, she didn’t even want it when it’s not that at all. It’s like, I’m not in a [00:21:00] position to appreciate what you’re trying to do for me right now. So yeah, I think a very good thing would be to ask somebody what is coming up so I can help you.

[00:21:09] And be kind of part of that process rather than just putting somebody on the spot. Like, what do you need right now at this moment at nine 53 and a Tuesday? You know, how can I help you right now? Because chances are, somebody’s going to have no idea.

[00:21:22] Cassandra: [00:21:22] That’s really good advice, Jamie, I think I, I appreciate you sharing such a hard time because you’re naturally just a pretty positive and upbeat person.

[00:21:32] And so but I know during this time that I think that’s probably why you were. Zombie like, cause you’re like, my brain does not process these sorts of things that are happening. I’m looking for the logic and the rationale. And there is no, there is no rationale. It’s just something that happened. And so I love, I love that you were willing to share that because it’s a, it is a really intimate story.

[00:21:56] How long ago, how long ago was the fire now?

[00:22:00] [00:22:00] Jamie: [00:22:00] It was three years ago, last month.

[00:22:02] Cassandra: [00:22:02] Okay. Oh, wow. So it’s still really fresh. I mean, relatively speaking, I mean, I could say that in 30 years would be like, it wasn’t that long ago

[00:22:12]Jamie: [00:22:12] it was a life time ago, but it was also just yesterday. So it’s, there’s, there’s both of those kind of going on at once.

[00:22:18] Cassandra: [00:22:18] Yes. So crazy. Awesome. And I appreciate the like knowing what we can do, because I I’m, again, one of those people that’s like, I think I like, I’m happy to help. I just don’t even know what that means.

[00:22:31] Jamie: [00:22:31] And I think I’m the same way as well. I’ve changed the way I try to react to people going through something, whether it’s a death, whether it’s through a, a breakup or a, you know, something traumatic like this it’s.

[00:22:44] It helps me to help them in a way just to know that wow. Every time I say that it’s kind of empty because Oh yeah. Let me know if you need me. But I’m not actually there if you need me. So it’s helped me to become better in that way.

[00:22:58] Cassandra: [00:22:58] I’m so happy to see you. [00:23:00] And I look forward to talking to you soon. I’ll see you later.

[00:23:02] Jamie: [00:23:02] All right. Thank you so much.

[00:23:04] Cassandra: [00:23:04] Okay, bye bye.

Hanging Up

When Jamie described the importance of making specific offerings and following through, I was nodding like crazy. I love that. She talked about giving people space to process their grief and trauma instead of asking too many questions. Share how you show up for friends in trauma below.

[00:23:20] Thank you for being a great listener and making Jamie feel needed and known.

[00:23:24] Want to talk more between episodes? Follow me on Instagram at needed and known until you need me next time. Bye.

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