This friendship kinda sucks.
You know it. They know it. But what now? Does your relationship need more Snapchats or TikTok dances together? Perhaps a night out will fix it?
Take the guesswork out of what’s next. In this episode, KB from Heart Convos shares her journey from Trash Friend to having meaningful Heart Convos. What does a good friendship look like? How do I make simple changes to get to the relationships I want to have and to be the best kind of friend that I can be?
The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.
Subject Resources
Ted Talk: 9 Ways To Tell If Your Friends Are Trash
KB and Heart Convos on Instagram
Transcript
Cassandra: 0:00
Hey friend, it’s Cassandra, and this is needed average moments into a great life by learning, growing, and I interview amazing people, who’ve improved their Today I’m interviewing KB from Heart Convos. She’s a conversation coach who has a lot to If you’ve ever wondered how to go deeper in your relationships why some people don’t, this is the episode for you.
KB: 0:37
Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited
Cassandra: 0:39
to be here. Okay. So let’s just start at the beginning. Tell us about your revelation that you were a trash friend.
KB: 0:46
I don’t know if it was a one time moment, however, I think And I think I had one too many bad breakups and friendship. I had just a ton of disappointing conversations, to that place of like, I don’t know what’s wrong and I’m tired And so. It wasn’t a one time like, oh my gosh, like I see just a discontent with being where I was in friendship. And over time it was like, I’m sick of this. Like I need something different. And so that’s how it, that’s kinda how it started for me.
Cassandra: 1:31
That’s awesome. I think what drew me to you is the fact that I have I’m like, no, you’re not a bad friend to me. I don’t know who you’re being a bad friend to. And also I feel like a bad friend, a lot of the time, That’s the person I want to be a friend with. That’s the part, that’s the person I do not want to be And so you start identifying those things That’s not good. Oh, we get along real well, everything is good. But then this thing happened and I don’t want to talk about it. So we’re just going to forget about,
KB: 2:05
yeah and after you have one too many bad situations, paying attention, because when everything’s going good, Nobody’s paying attention to anything. It’s when you have the, you lose the one friend that you thing blows up that you didn’t really want to blow up or drift Like how we got here. And so where did we go wrong?
Cassandra: 2:31
Anyway? So many of us feel like trash friends sometimes. And like, we know when we’re being a bad friend, we know when like, we don’t know exactly what we’re doing or how to fix it. And I think for, you know, there’s two types of art There’s the pursuer, the one who’s like, what can Can we just, what can I do? I know I did something wrong. Like what can I do? And then there’s the other side. That’s like, Just let us slide. We’ll just move on.
KB: 3:00
Yeah. I think people swing to the extremes of like, I don’t care. I’m too busy. I don’t have time anyway, like that guarded. Like I’m not going to let this affect me more than I than I want it to, or more than what’s convenient for me. But then there’s the other side that of people who are just Like I want this to work and sometimes that’s motivated sometimes there are people who, or like they, they are they don’t like to lose things for not, or let things Like they want understanding they want clarity. They don’t like kind of living in the fog and uncertainty And so they’re the ones asking the questions, But it’s all about values. It’s all about where you’re at. It’s all about what you want. And if you know what you want, you will be more intentional But when it comes to friendships, we’re not thinking date, we think deeply when we’re married, we’re trying to, We think very deeply when it comes to friendships,
Cassandra: 4:11
Well, and they’re all the same. I mean, obviously I’m not sleeping with my friends, but. Ultimately the core of the relationship is the same. That, that like the, the needs are, are similar, Everything is similar about your friendships or whoever you’re dating or whatever, the similar core. But like you say, we don’t put any emphasis on that Ooh. But if I want to get married, I know what I expect. I know what he needs to look like. I need.
KB: 4:44
Cool reg, I don’t understand why in friendship, we kind like stand the test of time and to get us through our Yeah. You know, again, like you said, in marriage, in dating people They have their expectations listed out some of them since They’ve got boundaries, you know, in mind for like what And again, in my mind, I’m thinking to myself, if practicing this in your friendships, your entire life, And all of a sudden just know what to do. I don’t, I, it would be hard to believe that that’s possible. Which is why I think the people don’t stay together because is whatever sex is, whatever friendship is going to be. The reason why you and I are still in this thing,
Cassandra: 5:40
I do
KB: 5:42
for the friendship, you know, But a lot of people realize like, oh, there’s not really a friendship here. There’s not, we got together for agreement’s sake, But people downplay the power of friendships so often. And that’s really, I think what sustained That’s really good. That’s really good. So if you’re listening and you’re single, go make some real Just make good friendships with people. You, you hear those stories of like, we were friends for so And that’s why that’s genuinely why I think that happens. Or like, so like my husband, we met through a friend, a friend know, you see him and you’re like, who’s that I don’t want Keep your Playboy or whatever, which is hilarious. You know, you get this impressions and it doesn’t, And we don’t do, we don’t do anything like that for friends she’s got a nice first or, you know, I really liked whatever. And you base everything on that. One thing that you liked or that one conversation instead of. Yes, the deepness. So listen, if we picked our S if we picked our romantic we pick our friends, there would be so much judgment. Like you didn’t ask any questions, did you? Yeah, no, it would be a problem.
Cassandra: 7:09
Well, and I think to your point, it kind of These were good. He was, he was good looking. She was good looking and that’s all it took. And here, like we’re Megan horrified faces of like,
KB: 7:24
here. This isn’t going to end. Well, this is not,
Cassandra: 7:28
those are the worst. Nobody wants to go to your wedding. I gotta be honest with you. I’ve been to a couple where you sitting in the way you’re like, Lord, please let this work out, please. Let me be wrong. I’m okay to be wrong about this. So to, to segue a little you have a really great Ted And we should look through those trash bins. If, if anybody listening once hear the Ted talk, I think you We’re not going to talk about all nine of them. What are your favorite ones on that list of like, If I could summarize these nine things down into a few
KB: 8:05
Yeah. So the Ted talk is called nine ways to tell if If you type in that nine ways to tell it’ll pop up Ooh, they won’t go deep as my favorite. I love the story that I tell about my daughter And so I, I feel like I need to go through all nine so that I don’t even know if I could say them verbatim. Let me see. The relationship is one sided. They don’t respect your boundaries. They’re not supportive. They treat other people poorly. They won’t fight for you or with you. You’re not a priority. Did I say that? They won’t go deep. They’re abusive. They’re character sucks. I think are the nine. I think I might’ve repeated one, but my favorite one is number of my daughter us taking her to Disney world and she wanted And so we get to the pool she’s in her bathing suit I don’t, first of all, I don’t do shared water. So it was a big sacrifice for me. Okay. And so we’re in the pool. When I come on a mine, like, come get it. And she’s like, no, she’s just enjoying, like keeping her feet, of playing at the, you know, not even in the shallow end, After about 45 minutes of this, we were like, oh, we’re So we get up to the room and naturally her grandparents say, How did it go? Was like, it was good. We went swimming. And in my mind, I know you did not sweat. I don’t know what your definition of swimming. But what you did was not swimming. And I think sometimes people feel that way in They’re being honest, open, vulnerable, transparent. It’s like, you know, you’re not really, like you might But that transparent part, that vulnerability part, you’re And you keep resisting going there because you’re guarded. You feel like, oh, if I go there, have the ability They’re going to hurt me. So I just kind of act like I have it all And that to me is, is I think my favorite of online Not because I enjoy people that won’t go deep, but that people should be mindful of in their relationships. That when a person will not lean into vulnerability in something about what they want and your, the relationship
Cassandra: 10:36
you know, I think that’s so. That’s so good. We have, we have some interviews coming up and One lady Who has cancer, who has she’s in remission now. So you know, she’s been fighting cancer and just the goes through that of like, I have no control over my body. I can’t do what I want. And if you’re not willing to have those conversations, one, And two. That relationship isn’t growing. And if it’s not growing, it’s dying. There’s no such thing as standing.
KB: 11:07
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Cassandra: 11:09
So how can we go from being unavailable trash connections and as wise woman might say: Heart Convos
KB: 11:20
Yeah. You know let me just say in general, it’s not that, well, dang, I’m a trash friend because I’ve been in one side at And that doesn’t make you a trash friend. I think what, what I would say makes someone a trash friend for so many years is that I had all of these traits. Alive and active in my life. And I was unwilling to change them. I had settled down into them and made them the standard Seeing the damage that it was causing and then wanting to. Fix or mend or grow beyond the behavior and And so don’t feel away if you’re like, oh, I can relate to that. That’s great. You can relate to that. That means that you are, there’s a level of self-awareness becomes what are you going to do about it now? And so we’ve all been through bad breakups. We’ve all been, yeah. Awkward situations with our friends, we’ve all been things the question becomes, are you going to verbalize Are you going to set new boundaries? Are you going to practice new habits that you weren’t doing? So when you got into that place where you’re fed up with the You essentially start to debrief, which is just a And you’re trying to figure out where have And where do I want to go? And once you start asking those questions, that’s when I know Sometimes people just want to hear themselves talk. Some people just want to talk just to say that they Isn’t effective, didn’t go anywhere. And isn’t producing the outcome that they want. And so heart combos are the only conversations I And heart is an acronym for honest, elephant And in my personal opinion, if you are not having conversations or one of these five things, you’re probably not having It’s not a conversation that’s going to get you And typically. Conversations that are hard. Conversations are conversations that we perceive So we’re like, well, did you tell her, well, no. Well, why didn’t you tell her? Oh, so hard. Okay. Like, all right. Did you know that that didn’t go well this time, but next should probably set a boundary and said, you’re not comfortable It’s going to be so hard. You know, what did you, did you, did you confront your boss? No, that’s such a hard conversation. These things in our mind that are hard and difficult And they seem hard because it’s going to require a level Right. Right. And so the heart conversation is just you being honest, when Give the honest answer, not the, not the answer that wants to hear, not the answer that you usually give. If it’s not true in the moment, give the honest answer. If there’s an issue in the relationship or in addressed the elephant in the room, call it out. However, people don’t like to have those conversations or have about that thing that seems like larger than life. People don’t do that. They like to stay on the surface. They don’t like to rock the boat. They don’t, they don’t want to go into the deep end. They want to sit at the steps, like my daughter and Right? Like that’s not what we’re doing here, you know? And so that, that is, I think how a person turns the corner are either exposed to a side of them that they don’t They become distracted. In the way that they’re connecting with other people. And the question is when you see yourself for who you are, eyes to it and like, pretend that it’s not there, or are You know? And so that’s really, I think that for myself, Again, going back to your initial question for how I And again, I’ve had a lot of conversations And I just got tired of, I mean, I was, it was exhausting. I don’t know if anybody ever can relate to that, How
Cassandra: 15:33
is the weather anyway? You know, like,
KB: 15:36
like how’s that working out for you? Yes,
Cassandra: 15:39
that is, oh, how’s that working out for you? You did all these things. How’s that work?
KB: 15:44
How’s that working out for? You
Cassandra: 15:46
talk about heart combos though. So we’re talking to, let’s say we’re talking to brand new, like I don’t have all of them. I, you know, I’m a pretty good friend. I think there’s a thing that happens that we So that listeners have an action step. Cause you can’t, you can just dive into the heart combos and heart combos, but how beautiful are they going to be KB let’s
KB: 16:15
the conversations that you’re going to try to have,Cassandra: 16:17
it will be awful. You need practice and what’s the best way maybe to get practice.
KB: 16:24
Listen, the conversations are going to be rough. At first, probably anxiety inducing, like legit. You’re going to talk to yourself and be in your head And then you’re going to, you’re gonna, you’re going I’m doing it. And then you’re going to go. And everything that you thought would happen will not happen. And that could be a good thing or a bad thing. Like you could think that, oh, this is not going to go well. And the person’s like, oh my gosh. Yes, absolutely. I’m so glad that you said that like just water off a Duck’s Like, yeah. I wish you would have said it earlier. Like really. And you’re just like, why did I stress? I’ve almost died, almost killed myself, you know, over And it was the easiest conversation ever, but then situations where you’re going to be hopeful that the They’re going to understand. And next thing you know, they’ve completely flipped the know, Whenever you were bringing it to the table is your fault. And you’re selfish and this is, this was you. And it’s like, oh, I wasn’t prepared for that. And you’re going to feel completely betrayed. And, and the reality is in order to establish deep, relationships that you have to lean into vulnerability. Now, let me tell you a little. The key to deep, meaningful connections is vulnerability. But the formula for being egregiously hurt So like, if you think about the word vulnerability, the it means to wound a person is not vulnerable unless they are So whatever you think honorability is, if you can’t You might’ve been honest. You might’ve been okay. But you weren’t vulnerable. And the only way that deep, meaningful, intimate There’s no way around making those types of attachments with Okay. Now, I’m also saying in the same breath, that that is the be disappointed, to be hurt, to be taken advantage of. And so you have to make a decision every day and If deep, meaningful connection is a possibility and you think that in the beginning, you will probably leaning to It go wrong. I didn’t sign up for this. I just can’t. I am not here for this, but the, but the reality is in order people that are authentic and that are genuine, you And I’ll say this even after this, but People typically go into a relationship pretending to wants them to be or who they should be for the connection. And then the other person falls in love with that person, So then what happens is they just start creating acceptance for this person that you have shown them what Is that you think that you, the true you, the yourself is being accepted is being, is being embraced. So you let your guard down and you’re no longer pretending Well, what happens is now the other person is seeing And depending on the personality type, they’re like, who are you? I want the other person. I don’t like this. And so now you feel rejected. And let me tell you what is happening. You are being rejected, but the difference between you being you’ve invested six months, pretending is that the real Hurt more latent in the, in the ladder, right? It’s going to hurt more after you’ve invested. There’s been interest incurred. You both have been super intentional. You’ve cultivated intimacy. And now all that gets ripped apart because You know what I mean? You just show up on the front, end, the person. It’s their prerogative to say, I’d like you, I don’t like stake in it, you know, there, there are no, there’s no like It doesn’t, it doesn’t fill away. You know? I mean, I’m not saying that that the desire to connect Right. That’s my favorite part . And so it just explains the, the, that we feel when we don’t get the thing that we were hoping You are perfectly normal to feel that way. However, When it, it hurts more, it hurts more when you invested. And so all I’m suggesting is, as you’re thinking about vulnerability in order to attain deep, meaningful connections and that you think is it worth me not being vulnerable in order And then it falling apart later or. Completely, you know, like vulnerability is the only
Cassandra: 21:50
Part of it, a huge part of that, which And is knowing who, who you are for me. I was told all my childhood who I was and what I was like. And so as a 35 year old woman, I’m figuring, Like I didn’t, I didn’t have a favorite anything Cause I was like petrified to have a favorite anything. And so now I’m like, what colors do I like? You know, like, At my age. So part of that part, it’s all, it’s all this train It’s not something you listen to one podcast and It’s a, you got to get on board.
KB: 22:32
Absolutely. And you make a great point. You can not make sense of yourself in relationship If you can’t make sense of yourself, like you have to in order to know how you, I mean, in order to form healthy So let me just say that again. Clearly you have to be able to make sense of yourself before Okay, so you alone by yourself, understanding your narrative, are, how you got there again, where you want to go, what you All of, all of those things have to be solidified and up as your most authentic self, in a relationship So I go there, I agree wholeheartedly with what.
Cassandra: 23:21
I love it. KB, you are wonderful human. I’m so thankful for you. I’m so thankful for heart combos and all of the And for this time together,
KB: 23:31
Hey, I appreciate you. I really, really do thank you for elevating these types of think at the end of the day, I love the title of this space, Listen being mean. Okay. Can I just say this really quickly meeting, like the that statement in phrase gets such a bad rap. It’s such a bad rap. Like it’s like wrong. Like I just don’t want to be neat. I don’t want to be perceived as needy. I don’t want to come off as needy. It’s like, but you need, like, you do need, Of who you are. It’s a part of our makeup. It’s part of the way that we built. We form attachments with other people. If we were self-sufficient and didn’t need anybody, robots. So I love the fact that you are elevating this Right. And, and known, you know, and I think people need to know that You have something that you’re bringing to the table. So I love it needed to known as dope to me. I rock with it. I love it. I support it. And yeah, I’m excited to see where all this goes. So thank you for having me and for listening to math. Me get on my soap box
Cassandra: 24:51 KB’s friend tips on Instagram, or to learn more You can find links in the show notes or visit needed Thank you for helping KB to be needed and known until Bye.