Podcast

3 Things Better Friends Do Better Than Before

Better Friend

Here’s what I’m not saying–I’m not THE BEST friend. I’m not THE WORST FRIEND. I’m simply a better friend than I once was.

Before putting effort into being a good friend, I simply bumbled along. Forgetting birthdays. Just hoping that friendships would work and let go of ones that weren’t easy.

I Saw the Sign

(thanks Ace of Base)

There wasn’t a monumental moment in my life that caused a shift. I had a slow realization that I had some crappy friends (or what KB at HeartConvos calls “Trash Friends”–friends who treat you like trash). My trash friends would cancel plans because something else sounded more fun. They would emotionally unload, then call me needy when I needed them. They were unpredictable, undependable, and rude with sarcasm.

My slow realization was that I was the same kind of friend I was attracting.

I was like a magnet for crappy friends because I was a crappy friend.

Ch-Ch-Changes

(thanks David Bowie)

Better Friends Avoid Sarcasm

I’m going to make a whole post about sarcasm, but sarcasm hides what we really think in painful words. It creates confusion to avoid the chaos of emotions. Don’t agree? Follow me on this:

Sarcasm is defined as “the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.“

Contempt? Contempt is “the feeling that a person or a thing is beneath consideration, worthless, or deserving scorn.”

That is: Sarcasm is the use of irony to mock or convey the feeling that a person or thing is beneath consideration, worthless, or deserving scorn.

I used to be excessively sarcastic. Any old friends who read this will likely be baffled that that’s not a core part of my character anymore. It hasn’t been for years.

Can I still be sarcastic? Yes. I’m a reformed sarcastic person, improved but not perfected.

But there is a serious freedom in knowing that my words are taken literally and sincerely, not confusing the recipient who knows I’m frequently sarcastic. I can say “I like your shirt” without freaking someone out anymore. Freedom.

Better Friends Use a Calendar

My mother-in-law is this majestic woman that remembers everyone’s birthdays and upcoming events. She would text me the day of a doctor’s appointment to ask how it went. How incredible is that?

One day, I asked for her secret. “How do you remember Every. Single. Event?!”

She looked at me and smiled gently, “I write it down.”

Why that blew my mind, I will never know, but I always thought I just had to remember all of my nieces and nephews and cousins and friends and their partners’ and their kids birthdays and events.

Nope.

I started writing it down.

My friend whose son has a surgery in September that she’s private about, but also inwardly freaking out about? I wrote down a reminder a month before, two weeks before, and the day before and after to follow up.

AND I put a reminder in a place I’ll see it. I developed a habit of checking the calendar (turns out they don’t work if you don’t use them, heh).

Better Friends Ask and Listen

The other change I made was to ask people questions and listen to their answers. A huge part of this is to practice mindfulness or the act of being present. I listen to the way they describe events or people. I ask questions about how they felt at that time. Why? It is essential to letting someone know you care and that they are Needed and Known.

Even more powerful is that when you remember how much she loves plumeria flowers because they remind her of her late mother and give her a birthday card with the flowers on it, she will feel even more connected to you. It’s called friendship.

Practice

All of these changes that I made were not light-switch-changes. They were practiced. I don’t remember every single fact a friend shares, I don’t send everyone birthday cards or call them on the right day. And I still deliver excellently executed and ever divisive sarcasm. But I made a note of my mistake, remember that I have room to improve, and move on.

I want to hear from you! What’s a ch-ch-change you’ve made to become a better friend?

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How to Get Muddy with Multiple Sclerosis at 21

How do I support my loved one through Multiple Sclerosis?

On this episode, I’m introducing you to my friend Allison. Allison is literally a brilliant beauty queen and her husband Shane is truly her Prince Charming. Shane was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis unexpectedly and they made huge changes in their lives to keep up. Nearly 10 years later, Allison shares the impact the diagnosis and their relationships have had on their lives. We all know that the struggle with an illness or disease can potentially suck the joy out of life. But not for Allison, Shane and Multiple Sclerosis. Hear how they fight the MS blues and how you can support your loved ones too.

The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.
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Resources and More Information about Multiple Sclerosis

National MS Society

Transcript

How Allison Met Shane

…Sometimes dreams are good and they actually come true!
Allison on meeting her husband

[00:00:00] Cassandra: Hey friend, it’s Cassandra, and this is needed and known the podcast where we discover how to transform average moments into a great life by learning, growing, and becoming better humans together. I interview amazing people who have improved their communication, relationships and perspectives in unique ways in each episode.

[00:00:42] Hey Alison, how are you?

[00:00:45] Allison: Good. How are you doing guys?

[00:00:48] Cassandra: [00:00:48] I am so glad that you joined us today to talk about multiple sclerosis. I wanted to talk about your journey because I, I think that your story is it’s so compelling. And it’s one of those this could never happen to me and then it does. And what do I do?

[00:01:04] So I feel like you have so much to share. So we’re just going to dive right in Tell me about growing up? Like, did you have like those quintessential little girl wedding, mommy dreams?

[00:01:17] Allison: [00:01:17] I absolutely did. I have always been obsessed with Disney movies and the Disney princesses that find their prince charming. And honestly, I still feel that way. I think it’s good to have those kinds of dreams and confession time. I even prayed as a child that my husband would be tall and athletic and have two eyes and blondish brownish hair. And that describes Shane. So, you know, sometimes dreams are good and they actually come true!

[00:01:52] Cassandra: Oh my gosh, that’s perfect. Literally, as you’re describing it, I’m like, “Oh my gosh, that is literally Shane.” That’s fantastic. So how did you guys meet?

[00:02:02] Allison: So we actually went to the school together. He moved to Edmond, OK from Kansas City, Missouri, and my best friend at the time actually went to school with him in Kansas city before he moved here.

[00:02:16] And yeah, she told me, she said, Alison Shane treats girls so nicely. He is like a prince. He’s the best you thought? Well, I mean, why not? Let’s go talk to him. So I just started to kind of flirt with him in class and he would walk me to my classes. And within a couple of weeks we felt like we were going to be together forever, which is funny looking back on it because I’m like, I hardly knew what I wanted for lunch.

[00:02:49] Right. You really do now? Well, I can barely pick lunch today, but 15 and a half. I decided that Shane [00:03:00] would be my husband. And here we are. 16 years later, still. Going strong. So some things you can get, right.

[00:03:09] Cassandra: [00:03:09] Even as a teenager, not everybody, but in your story that worked out so well. And so I love that. I love that your sweet, sweet story, because literally you’ve spent half your lives together over half your lives now.

[00:03:22] Allison: [00:03:22] Yeah.

6 Months of Marital Bliss and Two 21st Birthdays

I think no matter what age you are, it’s really hard to feel like a piece of what you thought your future would look like is gone, and you kind of lose your innocence. And to a large extent, it’s hard to be around your friends who are planning to go to the next football game while you’re talking about really serious treatments for a disease.

[00:03:25] Cassandra: [00:03:25] But things didn’t go according to plan it. Wasn’t a complete fairy tale. What happened?

[00:03:30] Allison: [00:03:30] Yeah. So we got married July 17th of 2010 and in March 12th of 2011 Shane was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and that was absolutely something that we did not plan for. We did not wish for hope for could not have imagined.

[00:03:55] It just completely threw us off course, to be honest. I mean, we were. 20 when we got married and 21 when he was diagnosed. And I think no matter what age you are, it’s really hard to feel like a piece of what you thought your future would look like is gone, and you kind of lose your innocence. And to a large extent, it’s hard to be around your friends who are planning to go to the next football game while you’re talking about really serious treatments for a disease.

[00:04:26] And it just. Kind of disconnects you from a lot of people. So that was certainly not something that we had planned for as kids.

That Night

I don’t want to go anywhere. Like you can’t even touch my body. It’s hurting so badly.
Allison remembering Shane’s pain the night he felt the first

[00:04:36] Cassandra: [00:04:36] Can you tell us what you noticed? Like how did you get to the diagnosis?

[00:04:41] Allison: [00:04:41] Absolutely. So Shane actually woke up in the middle of the night and he had the worst migraine of his life. His body was hurting and then the left side of his face and broke, went completely numb.

[00:04:56] And I actually remember kind of rolling over in bed and not feeling him next to me. And I just instinctively knew that something was wrong. So I get up and I found him on the bathroom floor and he just kept saying, I don’t want to move.

[00:05:11] I don’t want to go anywhere. Like you can’t even touch my body. It’s hurting so badly. Yeah. So in my mind, I kept thinking. Maybe it’s a migraine, maybe, you know, it’s a small stroke. I just honestly didn’t have a clue what could cause all these symptoms to happen at the same time. So I got him back into bed and the following day he went to his primary care doctor and they were like, oh yeah, this is a really severe migraine.

[00:05:41] That’s why you have all this numbness and tingling. And we’ll put you on some blood pressure medication, because hopefully that will get rid of migraine and yeah. And so nothing got better. In fact, it kind of got worse. And so my grandmother actually passed away later that [00:06:00] week and I was supposed to travel to little rock Arkansas for her funeral.

[00:06:04] I am the designated speech giver in my family. So when someone passes away, I always right. The eulogy and give it for the family, which is an honor. But that week I was just so distracted with Shane’s health. So we decided we would just meet at mercy hospital. I was on my way to little rock and I thought, you know what?

[00:06:26] I don’t really want to leave town until I know that Shane’s okay. So I called him and I said, just meet me at mercy. This was about noon and eight o’clock that night. They had him diagnosed with Ms. Which seems crazy because that’s eight hours. It’s honestly super fast because most people go for years with symptoms and no diagnosis.

[00:06:49] Cassandra: [00:06:49] Oh, wow. And you hear that too, right? Like I knew something was wrong or sometimes there’s the opposite of like, no, it’s really just a bad migraine. And so that whole, like trying to [00:07:00] figure it out and I feel like the support of a spouse can really make the difference or friends even being like, this seems odd.

[00:07:06] Something’s not right. So. I’m so glad that you were there for him. You, you really are that friend though, too. That’s like, I’m there, you need something I’m there. And so I can imagine for your heart that there’s no way you could’ve gone to little rock without knowing something’s not, something’s not right.

[00:07:22] Allison: [00:07:22] So yeah. Yeah, exactly. That it would really just ate away at me. And I thought, well, best case scenario, we rule out everything and I can go comfortably. And then instead it was. This horrible diagnosis. And I had to get in the car at eight o’clock and drive the five and a half hours to little rock. So that was certainly a very difficult trip to make, but, and, you know, Shane wanted me to be there for my family and it made sense.

[00:07:48] So we trekked on board

What is Multiple Sclerosis?

…if you’ve ever seen a rat or a rabbit to through a wire and you sort of have this frayed wire on the inside, and you can see where the animals eaten away at the coating around the wire.
Allison describing MS

[00:07:51] Cassandra: [00:07:51] Ms and all. So for those of us that don’t know, can you can use tell us what Ms is? What is multiple sclerosis?

[00:08:00] [00:08:00] Allison: [00:08:00] Yeah, absolutely. So it is a progressively degenerative auto-immune disease. Basically what happens is your central nervous system identifies good parts of your body, but it sees it as bad.

[00:08:15] So you have this mileage sheet, it’s like a fatty tissue that sits around all of the synopsis in your brain. And those Synopsys are what help us make connections between. Our brain and our body parts. And what Shane’s body does is it sees those that fatty cell, the tissue around the synopsis, and it actually eats it away when it attacks his body.

[00:08:43] And it may look at a healthy T cell and decide that it’s unhealthy or that it’s a virus or something. And it just attacks his body. So basically what ends up happening is you have a broken connection everywhere that there’s a scar. So multiple [00:09:00] sclerosis, many scars is kind of how I describe it. And if you can imagine if you’ve ever seen a rat or a rabbit to through a wire and you sort of have this frayed wire on the inside, and you can see where the animals eaten away at the coating around the wire.

[00:09:20] That’s what Shane’s body does. So the next time that an electrical current goes through that wire, it may not ever make it to the end point because it stops where it’s broken. So Shane’s body does that. Let’s say his brain tells him I want to pick up that cup. Well, if it goes through a broken connection, he may go to pick it up and then just drop it.

[00:09:42] So it’s, it’s pretty crazy, and it it’s different for everybody, but for the most part, that’s kind of what’s going on internally that causes permanent damage common at all, and people in their twenties. I mean, he’s 21 getting this diagnosis. How is that? [00:10:00] The, I knew a woman who had Ms and she was in her forties and I was like, oh, that must be something that, I mean, It’s not old by my standards at this age, but you know, when you’re in high school, college, you’re like that’s for older people.

[00:10:12] So do you happen to know the statistics on that?

[00:10:17] No. I think most people are diagnosed mid thirties to early forties. I think increasingly we’ve seen younger people being diagnosed because we now know more about the disease and we were able to identify symptoms, but even with. That taken into account. I do think generally mid thirties to early forties or mid forties would be kind of a more normal diagnosis.

[00:10:43] And it actually predominantly impacts women. It’s about an 80 20 split. So males tend to have the more aggressive forms of Ms which hearing that was not super pleasant, you know? Cause you’re thinking. Well, how rare is it that Shane has it? Well, it’s already super rare. And then from being young, it was kind of rare on rare.

[00:11:07] So, you know, you just have to accept those things and move forward as best as you can.

Diagnosis

We had to send his results to another hospital because we were really shocked by what we saw. And we didn’t want to tell you the wrong thing.
Allison sharing the doctors’ process

[00:11:13] Cassandra: [00:11:13] That goes back to your point of getting diagnosed within eight hours was actually huge eight hours. The second time. We’re not going to count the GP (General Physician), but the second time, because you, you went back in and you got a diagnosis, which is not the, kind of the way that most of those tests would have gone, they would have maybe pushed that out. So that just affirms your point of like, we got very fortunate to get diagnosed at eight hours.

[00:11:39] Allison: [00:11:39] We did. And I honestly wish I knew who the ER physician was that came out to talk to us because. I wasn’t really in a good place. And I kept asking, why is it taking so long? I don’t understand what’s going on.

[00:11:53] And one of the radiologists came out and said, I’m so sorry. We had to send his results to another hospital because we were really shocked by what we saw. And we didn’t want to tell you the wrong thing. And now I’m so grateful for that, that they took all that extra time in the moment. All I could think about was, I mean, there’s nothing wrong, so why are we still here?

[00:12:14] And obviously that wasn’t the case. So I wish I could, I might have to figure out how it’s tagged with that physician and just apologize because then my head space was not good in the ER.

Future Changes

my tax returns showed I made a whopping $11,000 that year, and that was with working full time.
Allison, realizing that she would need a career change to support her family

[00:12:27] Cassandra: [00:12:27] I think that really demonstrates your heart of like still having compassion for that person. What is going through your mind about your lives and your future and your career paths where you maybe not in that moment, but shortly thereafter, you have to be thinking, what does this mean for us?

[00:12:56] Allison: [00:12:56] Yeah, absolutely. So at the time that Shane was diagnosed, I was working as a teacher’s assistant.

[00:13:04] We’re a special needs child at a local elementary school. And my tax returns showed I made a whopping $11,000 that year, and that was with working full time. So I quickly realized that teaching was not going to cut it. And even if I had a classroom to myself, I still wasn’t going to make enough to provide for both of us.

[00:13:28] So I switched my major, actually just majored in. Political science because I thought it was interesting. And I thought I could tolerate the classes and get out as fast as humanly possible. So I did. And after I graduated, I applied for a ton of jobs. I mean, I was just picking up virtually any kind of job that I could think of.

[00:13:50] And of course I got zero callbacks and felt very depressed, very discouraged. Really hopeless because I thought here I am at this point in my life where I’m supposed to be providing security for my family. And I can’t even get a local nonprofit that requires half or high school diploma to call me back, you know?

[00:14:10] So I felt, I felt extremely discouraged and I just kept praying like, Lord, where am I supposed to go? I don’t, I don’t understand what you’re doing, know what I have to do. And I don’t know how to get there. And during a prayer, I felt led to apply for law school, which is hilarious because honestly, I don’t even tell people that I’m a lawyer because I don’t think it’s significant.

[00:14:36] I’d rather just talk about life and things that people have walked through. I don’t ascribe any certain special significance because I. Happened to pass the bar exam

[00:14:49] Cassandra: [00:14:49] You’re not a typical lawyer. I think of you more like a Bob Goff, lawyer, that’s not relevant to anything about you. Like, it’s just kind of a side note. I’ve met a lot of lawyers and I would totally agree with that. I wouldn’t lead with that. I wouldn’t even include it unless it became necessary. And I think that’s kind of how you approach it too.

[00:15:07] Allison: [00:15:07] Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I was totally thrown off by that, but I, I mean, I had been like in the fetal position on the floor crying, very discouraged and I literally picked myself up and applied for law school. And when I got into it, I understood why God led me there because my brain just worked that way. He had just made me to be very analytical and I had done a lot of pageants. And so I was very practiced on, you know, how to have good, clear, concise conversation. And. Nice writing.

So it kind of all started to come together and it just, it really was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do, but it also was such an amazing blessing because the entire time I thought about, you know, I’m not just here for a career change, I’m really here to [00:16:00] hopefully make a difference in Shane’s life and to show him how much I care and how much I want to pursue the best for our family.

[00:16:08] And then on top of that, just. Recognizing that all things are possible with God. And I may not feel capable of walking through it, but somehow he led me through it. And I’m still here ticking away.

Breaking Stereotypes and Silent Diseases

[00:16:21] Cassandra: [00:16:21] I think that’s. That’s a tough, you handle that with such grace, because it really is. It’s a career move that I’m sure I know Shane well enough to know that he wasn’t like you’re going to have to buck up.

[00:16:32] Alison, because I can’t, I know that that’s something that you did, that you were like, this is something that I can do to make a difference in our lives. But you still handled it with such grace. And I think that that’s so inspirational to anyone who’s going through. Something that they’re like, I don’t have control over this.

[00:16:49] And you’re like, I don’t like a lot of it is just is what it is and I have to roll with it. But I still love Shane and he’s still my prince. So I love that so much. I’ve had to make changes for work and I know. When I met Shane, I was shocked because just so anybody listening can get an image in their head.

[00:17:11] He is a prince charming. Like he is, he’s just your bow 100%. And he’s super like super in shape, super muscular, like a bodybuilder type almost. And, and I’m not a gym person. Though I aspire. And there’s room for improvement. He, he definitely is like your typical quote gym person. She didn’t look sick.

Silent Diseases

Really taking a step back and recognizing that someone who has a handicap decal on their car may walk into Target looking completely healthy and normal, but they may be exhausted when they’re done and they may really need that close parking space.
Allison sharing how to give grace

[00:17:35] Can you talk about that? What are other stereotypes that I’m or somebody listening might have that you want to make sure that you change?

[00:17:45] Allison: [00:17:45] Yeah, absolutely. That’s definitely, probably the biggest one that we encounter when Shane tells someone that he has MS, or like, “But you don’t look sick and you’re in shape and you have fun and you have joy in you’re fun to be around, you know, it’s kind of like, how could that possibly be?”

[00:18:04] And so, yeah, definitely the first one is just that. Sometimes people have silent diseases. You know, they have conditions where they may look completely healthy, but internally they’re fighting a battle that people can’t see. And I think that’s true of all of us, you know, even if health is not it, we all have battles that other people can’t see.

[00:18:25] So just. Really taking a step back and recognizing that someone who has a handicap decal on their car may walk into Target looking completely healthy and normal, but they may be exhausted when they’re done and they may really need that close parking space. And then another thing too, that I’ve encountered pretty frequently is that people have a tendency to think that symptoms are exaggerated or there’s no possible way that someone could still feel bad after all this time.

[00:18:55] And, you know, Shane frequently comes home and sleeps during the middle of the day. You know, he’ll get up at seven o’clock in the morning. And by two he needs a two or three hour nap. And it’s hard for other young people to understand because they just think it doesn’t make any sense. How is it possible lies to you to take your nav to survive?

[00:19:17] Politically. Yeah. So I would just encourage people that, you know, if you know someone who does have a condition, that’s kind of hard to understand, just believe them. When they say that they’re tired or they can’t make the birthday party, they can’t stay out late. Or maybe they need some extra time to get ready.

[00:19:34] There’s things like that. That aren’t necessarily obvious. From the get go, I think are just important to keep in the back of our mind.

Symptoms and the Suck

…What I’ve recognized is I can’t control what happens, but I can control how I respond.
Allison on the symptoms

[00:19:42] Cassandra: [00:19:42] It sounds like what you’re describing is because his body’s constantly fighting itself. He is experiencing symptoms that we might experience. If we had a terrible flu or we were super sick or something was happening, we just feel fatigued and tired and our temperature is off. I know that’s important to him. And, but he feels that way all the time.

[00:20:05] Allison: [00:20:05] Yeah, exactly. So when it’s really hot outside, he’ll sleep for 10 to 15 hours during the middle of the day. And the heat just completely fatigues him. And then sometimes his body will just decide that he doesn’t need his left leg today.

[00:20:23] So his leg will go numb or it might be in a lot of pain. And so every day is just something different and he don’t really know what to expect. But what I have found is that there’s kind of some freedom in that because I used to live under the illusion that if I just tried hard enough, I could control what was going on around me.

[00:20:45] And what I’ve recognized is I can’t control what happens, but I can control how I respond. And so just making the conscious choice to say, All right. We don’t know if you’re going to walk tomorrow. So why don’t we just live today with as much joy as we possibly can and really just pursuing that every single day surrender, like we don’t know what tomorrow holds nobody does.

[00:21:11] We just don’t have the luxury of pretending that pretending that we do. And so that, that kind of perspective shift I think is, is really important. When you’re walking through a grieving season or, or something difficult, it’s just recognizing, you know, what, we can’t control it. And sometimes there’s a lot of freedom in that when you just say, we’re just going to choose to be joyful and do the best, we can complain a little bit along the way.

[00:21:38] Cause you know, you got to do that sometimes, but not stay down, you know? Keep keep going forward.

[00:21:45] Cassandra: [00:21:45] I love that. You’re I love that you leave the room for the complaining and the, this sucks. Like this just sucks. Yeah. Keep moving along. Like just gotta keep going on. I love that you leave room for both. And I think it’s so important because there’s a, what do they call it?

[00:22:01] Toxic positivity of like being like fake positive and I know you don’t have room for that inside your persona at all. But I, I love that, that you have that balance of like, it’s okay to embrace both. You could even do it within moments of each other. It’s like multitasking feelings, just shifting back and forth.

Encouraging Others From the Mud by Showing Up

“..you still have dreams to pursue. And just not, not being willing to give up on that, even in the middle of the mud and the yuck…”

[00:22:21] Allison: [00:22:21] That’s so true. Yeah, you’re right. And I think, I think a lot of times that also plays into like how comfortable people are talking to you about your struggle, because they often feel like, I don’t know how to encourage someone, who is facing paralysis. Like right now, Shane’s in the middle of a relapse and he’s doing a lot better than he was eight or nine weeks ago, but his body just went totally numb and they didn’t know if he was going to walk or recover.

[00:22:49] And so people, I think, feel like how, how do you encourage somebody like that? I don’t know what to say. So I’m just not going to say anything. And what we’ve kind of realized is [00:23:00] sometimes it’s nice to just have somebody that. Sits in the mud with you and says, this really sucks. And you’re like, yeah, it does.

[00:23:06] And let’s go get a Starbucks or let’s go to the park and take a walk or just come sit on the couch and watch movies with us. And you don’t have to have something to say, you can just be a great listener. And that’s really been the biggest blessing for us is just having people around us that are like, Yeah, it does suck.

[00:23:28] This is, this is reality. And it’s what you’re feeling is real, but together we can still move forward and you still have value and you still have a life to live. You know, you still have dreams to pursue. And just not, not being willing to give up on that, even in the middle of the mud and the yuck.

[00:23:47] Cassandra: [00:23:47] I love that “sitting in the mud with them.”

Examples of What to Do or Say

What could I ask you guys in order to get into the mud with you?

[00:23:51] How so? I think you’ve educated us on how we can sit in the mud with somebody, but how do we, how do we even ask to sit down? [00:24:00] Like, so what would be a great question for me to ask Shane? I know he’s not doing well. What could I ask you guys in order to get into the mud with you?

[00:24:11] Allison: [00:24:11] I think. Just sending a text message, even that just says, Hey, I’m so sorry that you’re walking through this.

[00:24:18] I’m here. If you need anything, do you want me to go get a movie for you? Or do you have something that you really like to eat all stop by and bring it over? Like, you know, Shane loves tacos, so basically you could bring any kind of taco over to the house and he would be thrilled. And just kind of making yourself available to come and hang out.

[00:24:41] And sometimes, you know, everybody’s kind of in a place where they’re just not in the mood to have conversation and that’s okay too, but what’s nice is that when Shane is ready, he goes and looks back and sees. All these messages from people who reached out to him and people [00:25:00] remember that, you know, even if in the moment they don’t take you up on your offer, they will never forget that you reached out and that you took that time to have that tough conversation or to be available for it.

[00:25:12] So really just sending a text or a phone call or a Facebook message that just makes you available. I think speaks volumes and really is a blessing for those people walking through the trial.

Story Wrap-Up

[00:25:22] Cassandra: [00:25:22] That’s awesome. I think that’s very helpful, especially for people like me who are like, but Shane looks fine, but suddenly he’s not feeling very good. Like what can I do? So it’s something practical that we’re all capable of asking is, “Gosh, I know you’re not feeling great, but I also know that you love the mocha Choco latte, whatever, let me pick you one up.” So that’s awesome. Alison, I so appreciate you spending time with me and my listeners today. And I am thankful for you and thankful for you sharing your story.

[00:25:55] I know it’s not, it’s not an easy story. It’s not a fun story, but I think you’ve [00:26:00] really encouraged us on how we can do better at supporting our friends with. Their struggles. So thank you.

[00:26:09] Allison: [00:26:09] Thank you. Thank you so much. It was such a great blessing to me, just to be able to share my story and just to pour in, hopefully to somebody fart and just to be an encouragement.

[00:26:20] So thank you for giving me. Your opportunity.

[00:26:23] Cassandra: [00:26:23] You’re welcome. I’ll see you later. I don’t know about you, but this episode makes me want to sit in the mud and laugh with a friend. Thank you for being a great listener and letting Alison feel Needed and Known. Want to talk more between episodes. Follow me on Instagram @neededandknown. For more information about multiple sclerosis click here.

Until you need me next time. Bye!

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How to be a Generous Friend with Six-Figure Savings

Paycheck-to-Paycheck to Savings

What if we focused on our needs and generosity to get rich? Being “rich” is relative, but when paycheck-to-paycheck is how most people live. In this episode Zap shares practical ways to increase your savings (Hint: there is no MLM involved!).
The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.
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Resources

Zap shares even more information about Real Estate on Youtube

Zap on Instagram

Transcript

Who is Zap?

[00:00:00] Cassandra: [00:00:00] Hey friend, it’s Cassandra, and this is needed and known the podcast where we discover how to transform average moments into a great life by learning, growing, and becoming better humans together. I interview amazing people who have improved their communication relationships. Perspectives in unique ways.

[00:00:18] I’ve always known budgeting was important, but for the longest time, I kept buying more stuff to keep up with my income. On this episode, I’m introducing you to my friend, Zap a SoCal realtor marriage mentor to newly married couples. And best of all has the most tangible inspirational budget instructions in my life.

[00:00:36] Y’all he has savings in the six digits. That’s hundreds of thousands. Get ready to take notes. And if you can’t, I’ll tell you where to get them at the end. Hey, Zap. Welcome to needed and known.

[00:00:49] Zap: [00:00:49] Thank you for allowing us to have this discussion. This is great.

[00:00:52] Cassandra: [00:00:52] No problem. I feel like you have so much wisdom to share.

[00:00:55] So I’m glad that I get to have you on my little show. [00:01:00] I wanted to just give our listeners a little bit of background about you. So can you tell us kind of about what life was like growing up for you and just a little bit of background.

[00:01:11] Zap: [00:01:11] Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up in the Southern California area started in San Diego because my father was in the Marine Corps.

[00:01:18] So he’s in the military. So I’m a military kid. And so we grew up pretty middle class. I would say with him being in the military, my mom used to work at a bank for a little bit, and then I messed that up by her having me, then she had kids. And so she was a mom that worked from home. Worked on me. And then we had three other in addition to me, three other kids.

[00:01:38] So my mom pretty much spent her time at home. And my dad was the breadwinner bread earner, as far as that goes. But yeah, we grew up in Southern California, pretty regular family, four kids, two parents, and moved from the San Diego area to the orange county LA area for a little bit, and then out to Riverside county.

[00:01:55] So I went to high school in Riverside county and then came back to San Diego for college. But [00:02:00] growing up was pretty, I would call it normal as far as Income and family life and just being the kid in Southern California.

[00:02:08] Cassandra: [00:02:08] Middle of the middle, except in Southern California. Okay. That’s great. And then, so then you went to college and we talked a little bit about this offline, but what, what happened?

Zap Learns About Money

I think the catalyst for me to really think about how to handle personal finances, finances, and be good at it was a really a deep desire to be more generous.
Zap Martin

[00:02:21] What kind of financial experience did you take with you into adulthood?

[00:02:26] Zap: [00:02:26] Yeah. So I went to college and my degree, my undergraduate degree was, and economics and my graduate degree was in business. And that’s when I started to kind of learn about money, if you will, and understanding how money works really well.

[00:02:39]That combined with just my personal interest in personal finances, right? I’m not running a multi-million dollar business, but just understanding how to really work through finances personally and not be normal as far as. Someone who makes money, spends money and makes money spends money. I really wanted to kind of get a handle on, you know, I feel like there’s a [00:03:00] way to do this and do it well so that you’re not chasing the next paycheck and, and, you know, living paycheck to paycheck.

[00:03:07] So I think after college, I started to learn and get into it and just do a better job of that. And until today, which I think I’ve done a lot better job of it and trying to help other people learn what I’ve learned.

[00:03:20] Cassandra: [00:03:20] Exactly. I think that’s, that’s the greatest thing. It’s rare that you meet someone who’s willing to talk about money.

[00:03:26] Not that you share all your stats and figures. Right. But you’re willing to talk about like, what’s good and what’s not good. I’ve worked in so many places where like, And I know we’ll get into this a little bit more later, but like, you know, they offer a matching 401k and nobody taps into that in your life.

[00:03:40] And the statistics are crazy, especially for, I guess, not in my age group anymore, but like people in their twenties who don’t even do anything with that. So I’m really excited to talk more about that. So you started learning more and what. Did you have any debt from college and what, what was kind of the catalyst for it?

[00:03:59] Zap: [00:03:59] Yeah, that’s a great question. So I did have debt coming out of college and I. Kind of like most college students, right. It came out with debt. I think the catalyst for me to really think about how to handle personal finances, finances, and be good at it was a really a deep desire to be more generous.

[00:04:15] One of my kind of prayers to God was if there’s a way that I could help people kind of freely and not. You know, not feel like I’ve got to eat noodles at the same time. You know, can, can you make that happen please? And so honestly, I think God just kind of answered prayer and said, okay. And it’s not like he handed me a bunch of money.

[00:04:34] It’s really what he handed me. It was just wisdom and discipline to do that well, and I just took that discipline and kind of organize it in a way that’s shareable with other people so that they can kind of take that same idea and concept and go, oh, this is. Possible to be generous and to be you know, to share with other people or not, you know, like I said, not eat noodles in the process.

[00:04:56] Cassandra: [00:04:56] There you go. Or in the UK beans on toast.

[00:05:02] [00:05:00] Zap: [00:05:02] Right.

How to Exit Paycheck-to-Paycheck

What most people tend to do is they make their decisions about spending in reverse. So they’ll start with all other stuff first, like, oh, that looks cool. Let’s buy that. Or let’s do this.
Zap Martin

[00:05:03] Cassandra: [00:05:03] So you mentioned living paycheck to paycheck and I was reading a statistic and it said like three and 10 people. Are in the kind of that steam of paycheck to paycheck. And I think that’s pretty modest. What, as you’ve talked to more people about money and about gaining wealth, kind of what, what’s your feel for that and what are, what are some first steps that I can take if I’m, you know, I’ve maxed out my budget and I don’t feel like there’s anything else I can do.

[00:05:28] Zap: [00:05:28] Right. That’s a great challenge. And I think there’s a lot of people that are the paycheck to paycheck and not because they necessarily want to me, but because they don’t know how to kind of exit that. And so there’s lots of steps. I’ve actually developed an acronym. If I can share that. I don’t know if it’s too early to share that, but an acronym that kind of help and it’s TISHA EXTRA, which is the extra and each letter stands for something to do.

[00:05:55] So the T stands for tithing. The I stands for investing, the S stands for saving the H stands for housing and the A stands for automobile. So what I told people is. Everyone has a TISHA, so to speak, right? Whether you know it or not, because no matter what. You know, what, what you make, you are gonna give tithes and your tithes may be zero, right?

[00:06:20] You’re going to invest, you’re investing maybe zero and you’re saving would be zero, but you’re spending money on housing, whether that’s renting or that’s a mortgage payment, and you’re probably spending money on a car, whether it’s your bus pass, or if you drive a Lexus or Mercedes, you’re still spending money on gas and breaks and things like that.

[00:06:35] So tracking what those things are, will help. As a starting point to understand, you know, your personal budget and how much money you’re spending. And so I start with that with people to say, you know, tell me about your TISHA. So I can understand how you’re spending money. And then from there, that’s when we can kind of make adjustments to people spending so that we can get away from that paycheck to paycheck.

[00:06:57] Cassandra: [00:06:57] Yeah. And I think one of the first things, when you start talking to somebody about this, the first thing that they say is, well, I’ve looked at my budget and there’s just no room. Like I have, I have no space. And so that, I think that TISHA is a great place to start for.

[00:07:11] Like, let’s just get down to like what. The big, they’re usually the, kind of the big, bulky things, right? Like your cell phone can be adjustable. Like our cell phone bill might not be anything close to the same as your cell phone bill. And that’s something that’s kind of like an adjustable utility. Right, right.

[00:07:26] Do you really need, is the question? Can you live at Starbucks and use their, their internet? You know, so I, yeah, I think that’s kind of a great place to start and I love that you can do that. So I, I map out my, my TISHA And I’m not, you know, I’m not investing, I’m not giving, I’m not, I’m not doing anything except paying my.

[00:07:48] Paying my rent. And, you know, I, I remember, I remember when we actually did this and we looked at the percentage is what I is, what I ended up looking at of how much went to [00:08:00] automobile and, and our gross. And that was that was a little scary, you know, this we’re talking almost 10 years ago, so Okay.

[00:08:09] Zap: [00:08:09] 10 years ago, time flies. So it’s

[00:08:13]Cassandra: [00:08:13] It was a little bit scary and I, I. Yeah, it’s a little bit scary. And especially when no part of that budget is anything for car maintenance.

[00:08:21] Zap: [00:08:21] Yes. Yes. So, can I piggyback off of that? So what what’s great about TISHA is that and again, I just use those, those acronyms.

[00:08:31] Right. The T I S H A. And then I want to talk about EXTRA, which is E for eating, X is for x-ray, which is medical related bills. The other T is for taxes and the R is for recreational activity and the A is for just all other things. So what’s great is once you categorize your spending in those things, what you’ll notice is you’ll get questions and I get questions like, Hey, I have a gym membership.

[00:08:54] Where, where does that go? And I can say, well, that could be all other things. It could be a recreational, right? Some people want to throw it in the medical, the x-ray. And I said, you know, you can still work out. And exercise without a gym, right? You don’t need a gym. So I wouldn’t quite call that a medical expense, but I would call that maybe recreational or, you know, under the all other category.

[00:09:16] And what most people tend to do is they make their decisions about spending in reverse. So they’ll start with all other stuff first, like, oh, that looks cool. Let’s buy that. Or let’s do this. Then they’ll say we need to take a vacation or we need to do recreational things. And then they’ll get to their taxes and their food and their.

[00:09:34] Housing and cars. And then the last things they think about are saving money, investing money in tithing. So what I really try to encourage people to do is reverse the order and go in order of TISHA. I asked first, so try first think about investing and think about saving and then think about paying your rent mortgage, car taxes and everything else.

[00:09:56] And so. Even the mindset shift of going in order of tithing investing and saving first, like make those, your first priorities. Once you get paid, make those the first three spending priorities. It changes the way you look at things. And then. You know, if you’re doing that well, by the time you get to recreational and all other things, you may run out of money, but at least you won’t ever have to go paycheck to paycheck.

[00:10:20] Cause the goal of TISHA is that if you’re giving first and you’re investing in saving second. You’re creating this buffer that keeps growing and growing and growing. And when I first started teaching how to get into too much detail, but when I first started doing TISHA myself, you know, I had no buffer, right?

[00:10:36] If I was paycheck to paycheck, if anything went wrong, it was bad. But as I started following that dynamic of TISHA. And I invested a little bit and saved a little bit, and those things grew pretty soon. I had a thousand extra dollars and I had 5,000 extra dollars and I had 10,000 and 50,000. And then pretty soon you get to a hundred thousand extra dollars and that’s when you can really be generous or really invest more.

[00:11:00] [00:11:00] So it’s a really cool thing to go to watch. You know, obviously myself, I can watch from the times I had, you know, I was happy with a hundred extra dollars in my bank account, you know, and now it’s. It’s in the six figures of extra dollars in the bank account. It’s just continue to grow over time because as the more I tie than invest in save the more that space, the more I have that wiggle room and space.

[00:11:21] So it’s, it’s great.

Percentage Spending Budget

[00:11:23] Cassandra: [00:11:23] So I remember you saying something really interesting. You said. If you don’t know where your money went, how can you tell your money? Where to go?

[00:11:33] Zap: [00:11:33] Exactly.

[00:11:34] Cassandra: [00:11:34] Anybody I talked to about budgeting, they’re like, But the food, how much do you spend?

[00:11:39] I have this many children. They’re this old, I am this spouse. We do these things. Where did the money go?

[00:11:45] Zap: [00:11:45] Yes. A lot of that goes into food. Definitely. The food tasted delicious does taste great. Which is great. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, one thing I think to kind of piggyback on that is. [00:12:00] I think about TISHA EXTRA, for example, and just any, you know, I use, again, those, those letters as an acronym, but my budget or my plan is a spending plan.

[00:12:09] Right. So what’s great is if I make $5,000 a month or if I make. $50,000 a month. I have a spending plan that’s based on PR and you mentioned it percentages, right? So if I say, and no matter how much I make, I’m going to give 10% of what I make to charity or to church, or, you know, going to tie that I’m going to give that away.

[00:12:29] I’m going to take 5% of what I make, I’m going to invest it. And again, a lot of people ask me, well, should it be gold or stocks or Bitcoin, or how should I invest it just investing the 5% in anything that you’re familiar with is a good start. You know, once you get to the. Big dollars then, you know, consult with people and, and see what’s best for investment for you.

[00:12:48] But, but I wouldn’t get tripped up over what that investment looks like when you’re just getting started. The important point is to take 5% and invest it in something that you’re familiar with. That’s making you some kind of [00:13:00] return and then the saving. Again, I identify a percentage so that if it helps out, because if I have a big sell I’m in real estate, so if I sell a house or have a big sale and I, you know, make.

[00:13:11] Twenty-five thousand dollars or $50,000 in that cell. I don’t just go, Hey, it’s time to take a vacation and spend 10 K on a vacation. I say, oh, I’ve already, preassigned where my money’s going to go, because I know 10% of that 25,000 goes to tiding. You know, 5% goes to investing. 5% goes to saving, you know, 7% goes to car and what’s cool is let’s say for example, I need a new brakes.

[00:13:34] Well, now I have a, you know, a bonus cause I just, you know, sold the house or sold a couple of houses and I can say, oh, I have some extra money to give towards my car and that can be preventative. I can go, let me get new brakes. I’m getting oil change. Let me. No, go ahead and, and change the filter or whatever it is I need to do while I have this bonus.

[00:13:51] Instead of just again, jumping to that, recreational or jumping to that, all the other stuff spending, because I have a plan how to spend my money, no matter how much or little money I made.

[00:14:01] Cassandra: [00:14:01] Yes. And that’s the thing that I love is the working off of percentages. It did it, like you say everything that you say it gives you freedom.

[00:14:08] I remember the first time I went back when my husband Simon and I met, we had an, an older car. And so, you know, I knew going into it, there were some things that needed to be fixed and you know, you’re like, I’m, I’m putting it on the credit card and then paying it off within the next few months and putting it on the credit card, the next thing on the credit card.

[00:14:28] And I remember the first time that I went in and I was like, I, I, I looked assignment. I was like, we’re putting this on like our debit card. Like, this is, this is a cash transaction, essentially. Like, it just feels different. And like I’m not going to be paying this off for a few months with interest. So You know, you think I managed to talk myself out of it for a long time of like, oh, it’s just a few percentage points or, but it just stacks up and then you pay it off and then you put it back on and you pay it off, you put it back on and then you’re, you’re in this perpetual wheel.

Investing with Credit Cards–WHAT?!

[00:14:57] Zap: [00:14:57] So, and you brought up something that’s very important. I think that a lot of people who, who feel like, Hey, I want to be an investor, but I don’t have a lot of money yet. How can I be a good investor? One of the things I’ll share with people is if you have any kind of credit card debt, whether it’s a 5%, 7%, 10%, if you pay that down, then you are an investor you’re investing in reducing the amount of money you’re giving to someone else versus you’re keeping yourself.

[00:15:24] So I’ll tell a lot of people who are you know, asking me about again, complicated. You know, stocks and bonds and real estate and investing and these kinds of things. And I’ll say, well, how much do you have in debt? And all 50,000 here and 10,000 there and whatever. And I go, what’s your, what’s your interest rates?

[00:15:39] Oh, 5% here at 10% there. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, you can start investing and what’s great about investing in paying off your own debt, especially consumer debt, right? Like credit card debt for. For what I call it, doodads things that are kind of like toys and fun things is it’s risk-free right. If I know I’m going to be paying down a 10% [00:16:00] interest rate, that’s that’s, there’s no risk to that.

[00:16:02] Versus if I’m putting my money in the stock market, I could lose, right. The stock market could go down. Or if I do real estate, I, I could, you know, the house may not sell for as much as I want it to, but if I’m paying down an interest rate, that’s a guaranteed return in my favor. Every time I make. A payment to pay down that interest rate that’s you know payment in favor for me.

[00:16:22] So it’s just a way to, risk-free invest in it’s good practice, right? If you’re disciplined to pay that, then you’ll be disciplined to save it and then you’ll be disciplined when you invest it. And so it’s just great. It’s just a great pattern and habit to get into.

[00:16:36]Cassandra: [00:16:36] I love that because it’s an easy pattern, right. It’s a great starter pattern. Cause you don’t. It’s not painful. It’s not as painful as saving when, you know, you could go travel or saving when you know, or, you know, using your money wisely when you’re putting it on the credit card. Because you’re like, if, if you’re, if, if you’re scared of it or if you’re hesitant, You can just rack your credit card up again.

[00:17:00] If you really want to, like, it’s, it’s just a different, it’s just different. So I love that and it feels a lot better than any vacation I’ve taken on it. And I love vacation and we know this, we live, we love to travel. But gosh, it feels good to go, oh man, we need new brakes. There’s a budget for that. I mean, it stinks. Nobody likes to pay for stuff like, yes. Should we get to pay for things I’ve been saving for this, but you’re like, It’s just, it’s a little bit better.

To Rent or To Buy?

Cassandra: So one of the things that we, we no longer live in Southern California but one of the things about living in Southern California is rent is really expensive. And so we were constantly trying to figure out if we should rent or should we buy? And the end solution for us was you should get out of debt first. You should not have a real revolving credit max situated. We weren’t maxed out. So that was problem for us.

[00:17:54] So my question for you is how do I know, or how does a listener know if they are, should buy and ignoring the current economy and the current market, but. Well, how do I know for me personally, if it’s a good time to buy or if I should keep renting or what, what are things that you would advise me as your friend to do?

[00:18:15] Zap: [00:18:15] Great. And that’s a great question. I get that question about rent versus buy I’m renting. And I want to talk about both of them as not one is better than the other, because I think it’s depending on your situation. And so I’ll give you times where I think it’s great to rent. One time, I think it’s great to rent as if your rent is.

[00:18:33] In your budget. In other words, for me, you know, my TISHA, if my housing allowance is we’ll call it, you know, 35 to 40% of my total income and renting fits in that 35 to 40% comfortably, then I should rent. If my rent is low, I’ve talked to people who, you know, they have, for whatever reason, they they’re friends with their landlord and they just lived there a long time and they pay their bills on time.

[00:18:56] So the landlord doesn’t raise the rent. That’s a great time to rent. What I would suggest as far as transitioning into pers possibly thing about buying a house is if your mortgage payment or your property, or principal interest taxes and insurance. Can still fit within your TISHA budget? In other words, whatever percentage you have for housing, if you can be an owner and still fit in that percentage, then I would suggest let’s look into buying because again, it fits into your spending plan.

[00:19:25] And so, in other words, don’t, don’t crazy. Adjust your spending plan and go, well, normally I’m a 35, 40%. You know, renter, I want to go to a 60% homeowner because I just want the, you know, the status of being a homeowner because you’re, you know, you’re destroying your, your budget, your TISHA, so to speak. And so so that’s what I would say is if you’re whatever your percentage is, if that fits into renting, I would continue renting.

[00:19:47] And, you know, as you make more money or as you’re growing and that percentage, because again, the more money you make, the more that percentage is going to grow and you can afford to own within that same percentage. Yeah. Please, move towards ownership and that way you can make that decision. So does that make sense?

[00:20:04] I would, I would kind of consider, consider my percentage for housing to make the decision, whether it’s housing and ownership or housing and renting.

Three Risk-Free Beginner Investments

Every month you owe someone money. You’re reverse investing.
Zap Martin

[00:20:12] Cassandra: [00:20:12] Gotcha. That’s no, I think that’s really great. You have shared. With me and with others before about investing as well. And so you, you talked a little bit about that, but you have these three ways that you can get in for risk-free, which I thought was super fascinating. And like we talked about credit already. But can you elaborate on those?

[00:20:32]Zap: [00:20:32] Yeah. So, so three, three easy ways that you can start investing right away. The first one I say is, again, is paying off debt. Anytime you owe a debt, that’s costing you money. It’s basically, you can’t even stay at zero you’re you’re sinking.

[00:20:45] Cause every month you owe someone money. You’re reverse investing. But in fact, when I talk about TISHA and I, the I, and tissue’s investing, I call debt a negative investment. So, if you think about, you know, being level of zero, if you owe someone money, you’re starting underneath the zero and then coming, you’re working your way back up to zero.

[00:21:06] And then once you start investing that money, then you can get positive returns after you’ve paid off all your debt. So the first thing is to pay off debt again, it’s risk-free, it’s guaranteed. The second thing I call is free money and people go on free money. Yeah, sign me up right up. But there’s so many jobs.

[00:21:23] There’s so many people that have jobs that if they ask or inquired, Hey, do you have any kind of matching funds matching 401k matching for three B some kind of matching fund and where I used to work? What was that a church actually The rock church in San Diego, they matched that. And so I asked, well, how much do you match?

[00:21:42] And he said up to 5%. And so I would give 5% to my 403b and they would match that 5%. So that’s free money. Like I don’t have to do anything special. I don’t have to like. You know, be investing wizard. They just match that fund because I work there because I’m an employee there and it’s part of their compensation plan.

[00:22:03] And so if you work at a place that matches funds definitely do that because it’s going to be essentially free money. And again, no risk money, the best investment you can make. And then the third one, I call it discounted money. So if you, for example, have a 401k or four oh three B or something where you can get a tax deduction.

[00:22:23] On giving or some, you know, your IRA, you can get a tax deduction. These are just different things that you can give to so that it reduces the amount of. Taxes, you have to pay. If, if you’re itemizing deductions, I don’t want to get into taxes too deep, but it’s, it’s just a, it’s a way that you can, the government gives you a discount on your money by you know, deducting taxes.

[00:22:44] So as a homeowner, I deduct the mortgage interest from my home loan and that’s a discount, right. Instead of. Instead of making, let’s say $50,000 a year. If I have mortgage interest that I pay, I can maybe my net or my income for taxes instead of 50 K might be 45 K. So I saved that $5,000 in taxes out own pay.

[00:23:05] And so that’s another way again, to invest that is no risk. Doesn’t cost you anything. So yeah, to recap, I would say again, debt paying off debt is the best way to start any free money or matching funds from employers. And the third is discounted money by things that the government gives you some kind of discount by 401k for three B IRA, mortgage, interest deduction, things like that.

[00:23:28] Cassandra: That’s awesome. That’s so great. It’s such an easy, I don’t have to know about CDs or anything complicated. I can just start real basic. If that’s attainable. I think

[00:23:38] Zap: The majority of people, if you did those three things, you would see how much space you have. Right? A lot of people say it on paycheck to paycheck. If you just did those three things that alone would, would push you out of that paycheck to paycheck world. And then you’d be open to do more, you know, either recreational things or more investing or more giving or more, whatever you want.

Credit Deals like 0% Interest

…They are not doing that out of the goodness of their heart.
Zap Martin

[00:23:59] Cassandra: [00:23:59] What are your thoughts on that? 0% interest or things like that. And I’m sort of setting you up there.

[00:24:07] Zap: [00:24:07] yeah, so that’s great. So my first thought is there’s always a reason why someone wants to give you a deal. Right. So if anyone’s coming at you with 0% interest for the first 12 months, or first 24 months or 18 months, they are not doing that out of the goodness of their heart.

[00:24:23] They’re doing because some study or some economic or some person counting beans and with an Excel spreadsheet says, you know what? 75% of these people that we give the no interest loan won’t pay and then we’ll make money later. So the challenge is. It’s always going to be a majority. It’s like Vegas, right?

[00:24:41] The biggest doesn’t win because they give most of their money away. They wouldn’t because they keep most of their money and they give a little bit of money away to keep people coming. But they’re always on the winning side of that equation and insane for people with the low interest or no interest loans.

[00:24:55] They’re on the winning side. So the challenge is people think, well, I’m going to be [00:25:00] the exception. Right. I’m going to be the one person that signs up for this no interest loan, and then I’m going to work the system and then I’m going to get out and I’m going to do it. Well, you know, the challenge is most people aren’t good at that.

[00:25:12] And so I would encourage you not to even just get sucked into that because that’s not an investment it’s strategy, large and not, that’s not an investment strategy. Now I have a credit card and I’m, you know, very obviously Mature with it. And I think through it, and I make wise decisions, but I wouldn’t call myself normal.

[00:25:31] You know, in the sense of that, the majority of people don’t don’t do that because it’s hard. It takes a lot of discipline, the same discipline it takes to, you know, pay for things cash instead of. Save it, or instead of using a credit card to pay for things you can’t afford or borrowing money to pay for things you can’t afford.

[00:25:47] So so yeah, I, I would advise against it. Again, I’m not saying that 0% for the first 12 months is not a good deal, but what, just to keep in mind there whoever’s advertising that is doing it for a reason.

[00:26:00] [00:26:00] Cassandra: [00:26:00] So we’ve talked about borrowing for a house and that seems to be okay in the TISHA EXTRA. As long as we’re accounting for everything that goes into a house, right. Because I’ve done the Zillow estimate. Right. And they’re always like, if you put 20% down and it’s like, well, are we, are we putting 20%? Is that really what we’re doing? Cause that accounts for PMI, it accounts for a lot of other things.

[00:26:24] Right? So excluding a mortgage loan, if we want to buy something fun or. You know, just any of the fun things, boats and RVs and all of the fun things that I need in my life. How, how do I go about borrowing for those and where do I get the best interest rates and give me the scoop?

[00:26:41]Zap: [00:26:41] Right, yeah. So borrowing is super interesting because, and I’m not saying I’m not against borrowing.

[00:26:48] I think borrowing is something that you know, that you can do. I just think that borrowing for something that is not mandatory or not urgent is. Basically me [00:27:00] telling God, for example, I’m not going to wait for what I want. I’m not going to wait for your timing for what I want. I want it now. And I want the things now.

[00:27:12] I can’t afford them right now, but I want them right now. So borrowing is kind of a sign of generally, instead of impatience, if you’re borrowing money to just spend on something that you can’t afford yet. Cause you’re impatient. They saying, I want to, I want this now, even though I need to be waiting to get this.

[00:27:28] So so I say that kind of just as a caution, almost like a heart check for borrowing, because a lot of people will say, I really want, for example, in vacation and are I deserve. If vacation. And so I can’t quite afford it yet, but I’ll borrow it by even putting it on my credit card or borrow money or not pay back someone who I owe money to yet, because I’ll just wait and pay them back later so I can spend this money on my vacation.

[00:27:52] So that makes sense.

[00:27:54] Cassandra: [00:27:54] Yeah, it really does. It, it’s a self victimization is what you’re doing really is. You’re like, you know, I have to have this thing I really want to go to Europe now is the time there’s no other time in the future to go. Which, which could be true for a very small portion of people.

[00:28:12] Right. But like the on average you can, you can put it off and you can actually save and then you’re spending cash and you’re not paying for it later and miserable back at your job miserable because you have no money because you just got yourself the more debt. Right. Exactly.

[00:28:30] Zap: [00:28:30] So, right. So, so I, yeah, I’m, I’m kind of anti-borrowing money. Yeah, it gets your, you gotta pay for it. It’s like more expensive, right? If you have the cash, then it’s less expensive. So they borrow. They don’t have the cash. That’s the challenge is if you don’t have the cash, though.

Needs Versus Wants Litmus Test

Again, if you’re, if you’re like, Hey, I’m hungry. Can I borrow some money so I can eat.

[00:28:54] Then I would just ask someone to give you money because most people it’s kind of cool. And there’s this that I don’t want to get too, too deep. Cause I get excited about this stuff is what’s cool. Is if you truly need something like, Hey, I need medicine for my child or I need you know, food to eat most. People around, you will give you what you need.

[00:29:16] Right. But if you’re like you don’t need a vacation, you just really, really, really want a vacation. And so, you know, grasping at things that you want and talking about them as if you need them, you know, and that’s kind of my test when I talk to people who come in and you should through marriage, some kind of marriage counseling about money and there’s some disagreement and I’ll, I’ll ask like, oh, where’s the disagreement.

[00:29:37] And it’s like, well, money. And I’ll say, Hey, if you can tell me that whatever it is you need, someone would be willing to give it to you? Then you probably need it. But if, if it sounds ridiculous for someone to give you money for, you know, if you said, Hey again, I need a vacation and I was okay, I’ll give you money for it.

[00:29:55] I’ll just give it to you. You don’t have to borrow it. I’ll just give it to you. That this sounds funny. So that’s kinda, my, my litmus test is, is if you feel like it’s weird for someone just to give it to you, then, then you probably don’t need it.

[00:30:08] Cassandra: [00:30:08] That’s a great litmus test. Did you get that from somewhere? Is that the ole Zap Martin brand?

[00:30:13] Zap: [00:30:13] Yeah, Martin brand from just trying to, trying to explain to people the difference between I need and I want, and it’s hard because everybody’s like, well, you don’t understand that I’m filling in the blank. I’m younger than you. I’m older than you. I’m a female, I’m a male, I’m a husband, I’m a wife. My parents are different than yours, like, you know, whatever reason that I don’t get their scenario. But yeah, I I’ve just used that before and told people, Hey, I, I will, if it can, if you walk up to me and say, man, I’m hungry. I don’t have anything to eat. I will buy you dinner, but if you walk to me and said, man, I can really use the steak right now.

[00:30:47] I’m just going to not buy you. Chick-fil-A Chick-fil-A’s great. Like it feeds you, right? I mean, Ruth Chris is great, but Chick-fil-A still feeds you your hamburger.

[00:31:00] So I just think that the challenge of many people mentally. I assume that they, you know, again, either have the right or this deep desire to have something. So they fast forward, they, they cheat, they skip line and say, I’m just going to borrow the money for it. So I don’t want to make this borrowing being a, be the last thing we talk about, right.

Budgeted Generosity

Cause it’s so much fun to be generous.
Zap Martin

[00:31:20] I don’t want to end on a negative note. I want to end on a positive note. And so I think the benefit of being disciplined financially, and again, in my case, I just use the TISHA. It’s a spending plan. To have a spending plan is you get to do cool stuff. So I’m going to talk about some of the cool things that I would have never gotten to do.

[00:31:36] Had I not had the spending plan? One is my wife and I really love to work with married couples and we have a little group of newlyweds married the first two or three or four years of marriage. And we do a couple annual events or we just pay for stuff for them. Right where there’s a little retreat or we you know, just buy them dinner, invite them over Christmas parties.

[00:31:56] And we never would have got to do that. We would’ve never had that extra. Had we not done TISHA EXTRA. Another thing is, again, I mentioned I’m in real estate is that house I bought in Las Vegas, actually, where it was a probate sale, long story short, there was a renter in one of the units that I bought and he did not want to move his.

[00:32:16] He was an older man in his seventies. He’d been living there for 15, 20 years. He loved his neighbors. He begged me, he said, Mr. Martin, please don’t kick me out. I love living here. My friends are my neighbors. I don’t want to go anywhere, but. I’m on a fixed income I’m on social security and basically he could only pay about 80% of what the market rent was.

[00:32:37] Well, what’s cool is I have the space to not kick him out. He still he’s been living there like five years. Right. And he tells me he’s so cool. He tells me, Hey, social security gave me a raise. I can pay eight more dollars a month in rent and I go, okay, Ron, you can pay the $800 a month for rent. Right. So it’s just a cool thing to have the ability to not be so tight.

[00:32:58] And so like, like you’re [00:33:00] grasping something so hard because you don’t want to lose it. It’s so nice to just relax. Be generous, have fun and have this space. And so this is the discipline really creates the space to be more loving, to be more giving, to be more kind. And I think that’s why it’s worth it to to have a spending plan and to be disciplined with your finances.

[00:33:19] Cause it’s so much fun to be generous.

[00:33:21] Cassandra: [00:33:21] Zap, thank you so much for sharing your generosity plan with us.

[00:33:25]Zap: [00:33:25] Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

[00:33:27] Cassandra: [00:33:27] Thank you for being a great listener and making Zap feel needed and known when to talk more between episodes. Follow me on Instagram at needed and known for more information about Tisha extra go-to neededandknown.com/podcast until you need me next time. Bye!

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How to be a Generous Friend with Six-Figure Savings -- Get practical tips on budgeting, credit cards, investing, saving, and becoming more generous

What happens when the perfect home burns down?

You need to go home. Your house is on fire.

She stared at her grocery cart and son in disbelief at the words she heard. How is this possible? She was home just a few hours ago and everything was fine.

When I see a story on the news of a house fire, I wonder what happens next? What would I do if they were my friend or loved one? In this episode, you’ll meet Jamie. She will share everything about what happens when a home burns down from insurance phone calls to what your loved ones you actually need.
This episode could be emotionally triggering as she briefly mentions her pets. Listener discretion is advised.
The transcript and resources for this episode can be found below.

Resources

American Red Cross – What to Do After a Fire

Introduction

[00:00:00] Cassandra: On this episode of needed and known, I’m introducing you to my friend, Jamie, while she was running errands, Jamie’s house burnt down.

[00:00:08] We see stories on the news of homes burning down. And I know I’m not the only one to wonder where did they go and what happens next? Jamie, will share everything from insurance phone calls to what your loved ones you actually need.

[00:00:19] And it’s not anything I thought of as you know, I encourage guests to be who they are. So I want to warn you that this episode could be emotionally triggering as she briefly mentions her pets. Listener (and reader) discretion is advised.

The Perfect Home

This is the one. So it’s happy and it’s peaceful.
Jamie, describing her house

[00:00:32] Can you tell us a little bit about buying your first home?

[00:00:36] Jamie: Yeah, so it was a long process. It took us about four years to be able to go through the entire process, saving up getting credits getting approved, finding a house, being able to get an offer in and a house. The whole thing, you know, we didn’t come from backgrounds that kind of gave us that foundation. So it was just. Learn as we go.

[00:00:56] It was one of those things that I told my husband, I want to be a homeowner. And he looked at me like, I was crazy. Like, we’re never gonna own a house. Like we don’t do that. You know, we’re paycheck to paycheck people. And I was like, no, this doesn’t make sense. So it was a huge goal and it took forever. We actually ended up using a first-time home buyers program in our County because we couldn’t get approved by ourselves. So it was a long process. And then even buying the house, people were like, no, the process is going to take too long. We’re not going to accept your offer. There’s too many what ifs. And so it was a long time.

[00:01:32] So this was like, when we found our house, it was like, this is it. We made it like this. Everything came to life. So it was super exciting for us. And it was something that we didn’t expect for ourselves previously, nobody around us expected. And it was, I don’t know, we just kind of did it.

[00:01:49] Cassandra: That’s awesome.

[00:01:50] Can you tell us a little bit about your home?

[00:01:53] Jamie: It’s modest it’s small it’s in a subdivision, a cookie cutter community, three bedrooms, two bathrooms. Very small for us. We have four kids. My husband had three before we got married. Now we added another one. So there are six of us in the house. And then my mom kind of jumped along.

[00:02:10] So it’s crowded. There’s a lot of us in it. But it’s happy. So it’s like our peaceful spot. It’s everything we liked. It’s got a lot of light in it. It’s concrete black, it’s got high ceiling. So all of those things, we’re like, oh, it’s what we would have pictured if we could have, I guess, had a choice, not like we really had much of one when we were shopping, but it was like, when we saw that it was like, this is it. This is the one. So it’s happy and it’s peaceful.

The Phone Call

…You need to go home right now. The fire department is at your house.
Jamie’s Mom

[00:02:40] Cassandra: That’s awesome. Okay. So what happened one day you’re shopping at target and everything changed with a phone call?

[00:02:49] Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. So I’ll give a little bit of context before that we have a stove that had been acting up. There was a couple of times that I came into the kitchen.

Once I came from out of town, we hadn’t even been in the house and I was like, I started smelling something. I’m like, what’s going on? And the stove was on, but we hadn’t cooked. And I’m like, That’s weird, but I didn’t really think anything of it. So I started getting in like this OCD habit of checking everything, touching all the burners is this on all the time, because I started becoming paranoid.

[00:03:17] So I was actually at a doctor’s appointment that morning. And after my doctor’s appointment, I went to Target with my son and we were just kind of browsing the aisles. And my mom called me and she was like, Have you talked to anybody, have you been home? I’m like, no, I’m at target. And she said, well, I keep on getting these phone calls.

[00:03:35] I think they’re prank phone calls. And somebody is saying that your house is burning down and I’m like, Why are you getting calls? Because she didn’t, she didn’t nothing links her to here. She slept here, but all of her mail goes somewhere else. And she has an out-of-state phone number. It doesn’t make sense to call her.

[00:03:52] So she’s like, it’s probably just a prank call. I have your uncle go over there because he lives down the road. And so she called me back about 15 minutes later, she was like, no, you need to go home right now. The fire departments at your house. And I don’t even know what you can think at that time I grabbed my son.

[00:04:07] I left the cart with all the groceries, which is like such an irresponsible, not me. Right. And ran out of the store. I must’ve looked like I was probably robbing the place, the speed I ran out of there and got home as fast as I could. I was doing like a hundred, like my mind was blank. I mean, I couldn’t even think of anything.

[00:04:27] What is, what does this mean? The fire department is at my house, like. That’s never a scenario in all of my overthinking that I ever thought of.

[00:04:34] Cassandra: It sounds like you were just following your last direction. Your mom was like, go home and you were like, I have to go home. My house is burning down. Goodbye groceries, like going straight out the door.

[00:04:45] Jamie: Yeah. So it wasn’t until I was on the interstate, my husband called me. He was like, I just got a call from your uncle. What’s going on? I was like, I’m on my way home right now. And he, the worst timing ever, he just blurted out. He’s like, Oh, the pets are dead. And I was driving like, “This is the wrong time to tell me!! What are you talking about? How do you know?” He was like, “I don’t know. He just told me.” And I was like, “How does he know?!” And I was just like, Saying nothing all the way home. My son’s in the back, mommy, what’s wrong. And I couldn’t even get words.

I pull up to my house and there’s fire trucks there and it’s a big scene and there’s people down my street and I’m like, what’s going on?

[00:05:28] And I’m looking on the outside of my house and I’m going. I thought they said there was a fire.

Where’s the Fire

[00:05:33] Cassandra: Oh. So you can’t even see anything.

[00:05:35] Jamie: Not from where I was. So our kitchen is where it started and that was a further back behind the garage. So if I would’ve seen the sides of the house that weren’t covered up by neighbors, trees, I would have been like, Oh, okay.

[00:05:47] Like windows are blown out. Things like that. But from the front end, like other than that, all the windows looking really smoky. It’s fine. Like the house is right there. So they wouldn’t let me [00:06:00] go in. At first they had to finish everything. And so he was probably about an hour before I actually stepped in.

[00:06:06] And in the meantime it was like the firefighters gave me a bag, like a trash bag. And they were like, yeah, these are your pets. Here you go. I’m like, cool. What do I do with this? Like, I don’t even know what’s going on at this point. Like processing, like thanks, dude. Merry Christmas you too. And when we finally went inside, it was just like, This is not what you expect a fire to look like, but it’s also not what you expect your house to look like.

[00:06:34] Cassandra: So what did it look like?

[00:06:36]Jamie: When you walk in the front room? So we have a big open area, kitchen living room, dining room area, and it was dark. First of all, there was no electricity to the house. The roof, like the ceiling, I guess not the roof completely in.

[00:06:52] Cassandra: Was it dark outside?

[00:06:54]Jamie: No, it was light outside, but it had gone all the way to the rafters, but all of the [00:07:00] windows.

[00:07:00] Yeah. All the windows were smoked over. So there was like soot, like a layer of soot and there was no lights inside and all you could see is just what was coming in from the door that had been kicked in. And it was just, the ceiling was down on the floor, insulation everywhere, chard everything, all my kitchen cabinets, half the ceiling, everything just on a big Ash pile.

[00:07:23] And I was just like, what? And then on top of that, it was wet, which is something I wasn’t expecting. But when the firefighters came in all the water, so it was like flooded city floating. Insulated ashy mess. And I was like, this is my house, but it’s not my house. Like I see part of my kitchen table is still there, but this isn’t, it is, but it’s not, it was like a weird, like this radiation.

[00:07:50] Yeah, exactly. Like I’m walking through this, like not fully grasping that it’s mine. Yeah, I guess so it was, it was very weird. And then [00:08:00] going, you know, Back through like the hallway, the kitchen, like the kitchen was gone. Yeah, just having to step over things. And it was just like, it’s crazy. And the smell, it smelled like burnt Tupperware, like just permeating.

[00:08:17] And I’m just like, what just happened? I was just here like six hours ago. It was wild.

Hurricane Saved Us

So those honestly, if it weren’t for the hurricane, all of that would have been gone.

[00:08:23] Cassandra: That is so wild because it’s so fast, right? It’s not like. You know, we grew up with hurricanes. So you got like days warning. There’s water coming. It’s going to be windy. You can prepare. It’s like it’s a matter of hours.

[00:08:38] Jamie: Exactly. And speaking of hurricane, that is actually why the things that did kind of make it through, made it through. It happened about just a couple of days after hurricane Irma. So that was projected to come straight to Tampa. And I’m a planner. So I bought all of these super heavy duty like plastic locking containers and everything that I thought, [00:09:00] well, you know, if my roof comes off, these are the things that are going to protect my things.

[00:09:04] So they were all still in there because we were spared from Irma. We never even lost power, but For this and apparently protected against heat against soot against water, against everything. So all my photos like my son’s baby book, my jewelry, like all the things that you’re like if I ever, you know, had to run into my house at the last minute, these are the things I would take.

[00:09:28] Those were all in those plastic bins. So those honestly, if it weren’t for the hurricane, all of that would have been gone.

[00:09:36] Cassandra: That’s crazy. What room were those things in? Like where they, they were away from the fire. I’m assuming they were out of the kitchen or…

[00:09:43]Jamie: they were out of the kitchen. They were back in my room, but in my rooms at the end of the house.

[00:09:48] So it’s kind of like a long floor plan where like, it kind of goes along and and like, What does that hallway? So like, what is the word? So it’s at the end of that, but what happened was, and we didn’t know, not something I would foresee is that when all of the firefighters came in, because we have these high ceilings, when they sprayed all the water in them, Within the next day or two, all of the ceilings came down in the house.

[00:10:16] Is there anything that happened? Yup. Anything that wasn’t wrecked in the house became ruined. So it was just, it collapsed on to everything. It was a mess, but everything was safe because the soot when The air conditioning, I guess, was running through the whole thing. So it took all of the smoke from the kitchen and covered everything in the house.

[00:10:37] So everything in every room was covered in a layer of soot and then of course water. And then within the next couple of days, the ceilings on top of it, water, mushy mess everywhere. So, but the pictures, the important things that I would like. Really want to cherish. All of those were protected, like amazingly.

[00:10:57] Yeah. And if it weren’t for the hurricane, it wouldn’t have been.

Sleeping After the Fire

[00:11:02] Cassandra: so, okay. So your house burns down, you’ve got your pictures. What do you do that first night? Where do you like? I I’ve always wondered. Okay. Now these people you’re, you, you have no place to sleep. Arguably, do you stay with a family member or do you, what do you do?

[00:11:20] What did you do?

[00:11:21]Jamie: [00:11:21] We ended up staying in a hotel. We you’re trying to figure that out as well, because we don’t really, we were the stable ones. Like people stayed at our house and people were staying at our house because of Irma because they didn’t have power. And so we’re like, where are we going? Nobody has power.

[00:11:37] And nobody has room and we don’t really have money to go to these places. So our insurance ended up putting up us in a hotel for two weeks, and that’s where we stayed at. We walked in there looking like a bunch of bums covered in soot and smelling like smoke. And that was home. That was the new home.

[00:11:55] Cassandra: [00:11:55] So you were there for two weeks. What’s high level. We [00:12:00] don’t have to get into the details, but I’m a nerd. And I think the people listening are probably nerds. If they’re listening to this w what high-level overview, what happens with your insurance? So you’re like, At what, what, at what point did you call, were you like, well, I’m standing at my house and it’s burning down.

[00:12:15] Are you like soaking it up after going, Oh my God, I have to call insurance. Like how, what happened?

[00:12:20] Jamie: [00:12:20] In fact, I was the first one. I had a metal file container with all of my, you know, also locking and everything with all of my important documents, had everything in there because of the hurricane. And. As soon as I got to the house, I was like, we have to call our insurance company because aren’t you supposed to let them know immediately?

[00:12:36] Like I took it a little bit too, literally that within, within two hours of being at the house, I found the paperwork. I called them. I filed the claim. And yeah, so basically they had an adjuster come out, but it ended up being weeks later because of Irma. They were so backed up. They basically said, well, you can stay in the hotel for two weeks.

[00:12:55] And then after that, we can’t cover it anymore. So you need to find a place to live. [00:13:00] And good luck and they kind of just left it up to us. So we ended up staying almost an hour away. They were like, just to find somewhere, find somebody that will rent to you find somewhere furnished because we’re not going to pay for furnishings, like find all of these things.

[00:13:15] And it’s up to you now because you can’t stay in the hotel anymore. And we did. We moved in, about an hour away and stayed there for two months. And then right before Christmas, we had to get out because it was kind of like an Airbnb. And they were like, yeah, we have people coming. So you got to get out.

[00:13:30] And there was nowhere else to find because of course it’s Christmas in Florida and there’s nowhere. So we ended up going to see my dad for like a week and a half I’m in Wisconsin. We’re like, Ooh, we have nowhere to go. So let’s make a vacation out of it. And we did, and we came back, rented another house.

[00:13:45] And then went back to a hotel again and then finally made it back home after six months.

[00:13:50]Cassandra: [00:13:50] So you were out of your home, was it about six months from burn to move back in just over six months?

[00:13:58] Jamie: [00:13:58] Yeah.

[00:14:00] [00:13:59] Cassandra: [00:13:59] Okay. Wow. So that’s like. Building a new home. That’s how long that takes essentially.

[00:14:04]Jamie: [00:14:04] And we moved in. It wasn’t even completely finished yet, but our insurance had run out.

And we moved in. It wasn’t even completely finished yet, but our insurance had run out.

[00:14:10] So we were like, yeah, y’all better have our house kind of ready. And they did. And they continued working on it for about another six months.

[00:14:18] Cassandra: [00:14:18] So what else did they do? What else did they have left to do when you moved in?

[00:14:23] Jamie: [00:14:23] They still had electrical stuff to, to left. They still had like all of the trimming and like finishing and all the little things.

[00:14:31] Like backsplashes some more tile work, things like that, but it was like able to be lived in while they did all these things. We just kind of had to work around people for the next several months.

Insurance Questions

[00:14:43] Cassandra: [00:14:43] Did you just rebuild the exact same floor plan?

[00:14:46] Jamie: [00:14:46] Exactly. So when the home burned down, it was down to the studs basically is how we had to tear it all down.

[00:14:52] So the foundation is the same. The garage is the same. The studs are the same, everything else is brand new.

[00:14:58] Cassandra: [00:14:58] Gotcha.

[00:14:59] So I’m [00:15:00] asking all these like nerdy questions, but now I’m like, okay, so wait, are you paying for your rental and your mortgage at the same time?

[00:15:08] Jamie: [00:15:08] No. So the insurance there’s a portion of the insurance called ale.

[00:15:11] So that covers yes, very important to have, as it turns out, I had no idea what it was, but that covers your living expenses. When you’re out of your house due to a claim always get extra. We found out that’s why we had to move back in our house because we were approaching the six month Mark and we were out of funds.

[00:15:31] So for the last. Month or so old that was out of pockets. So thankfully it took us about that long where, you know, but yeah, we still to pay the mortgage and then thankfully they covered most of that living expense.

I’m Not a Material Girl

So immediately, it was, it was the shock of not having anything like having to go to Walmart and buy a new toothbrush should not like not having the smallest things that you take for granted to being angry
Jamie, the night of the fire

[00:15:45] Cassandra: [00:15:45] Okay. Okay. Well, that’s a kick in the teeth, but I mean, yeah. That’s what happens? My goodness.

[00:15:53] Okay. So it’s been a little bit cleansing for you cause you had stuff because the environments that we come [00:16:00] from, everybody saves everything. Cause we’re scared. We’re not going to have more And you might need that one day. I feel like that’s the most common phrase in my family is why do you never know? You might need that one day. It’s a dollar. I can replace it for a dollar, like it’s going to be okay. So what happens, like what sort of cleansing happened with that for you?

[00:16:20] Jamie: [00:16:20] So immediately, it was, it was the shock of not having anything like having to go to Walmart and buy a new toothbrush should not like not having the smallest things that you take for granted to being angry to all of a sudden, one day I called my dad.

[00:16:35] I’m like, you know what I feel okay about this. Like, I have made peace with losing everything and I realized that I don’t need these things in order to continue my life. I’ve had them. I haven’t had them for a month now. And I’m still okay. I’m still thriving. I’m still living my life. So I made my peace with that.

[00:16:53] And so now that we’re back in here, it’s kind of like, well, we can appreciate things and we [00:17:00] can have things, but I don’t let things have us, if that makes sense. So. It’s easier to kind of like let these things go rather than to be so attached to them. Like I was before, because we were very much like that, like, Oh, we might need this, you know, weird thing that you can probably find a dollar tree, but we don’t might not have the extra dollar next week to go get it.

[00:17:19] So I’m going to go store this away in the garage. I’m going to store this under the bed. It’s kind of given me a different mindset of what is really needed what’s wanted and what’s just extra. And now all the extra stuff makes me very anxious. Yeah. I don’t to hear it. Like, I don’t want it.

[00:17:41] Cassandra: [00:17:41] And that’s, that might not be everybody’s experience, but that was your experience just because. That you, it sounds like you kind of already had that in the back of your mind as like, well, I’m, you were wrestling with it maybe. And so it was like a forced cleansing of stuff.

[00:17:55] Jamie: [00:17:55] Definitely. Cause it’s always one of those things like, Oh one day I’m going to get rid of all this and I’m going to be, you know, comfortable enough.

[00:18:01] But I was never at that point that I could just be so reckless to be like, yeah, let me throw it all away. And just hope that I’m good for tomorrow or next week.

Show Up for a Friend Through Trauma

[00:18:08] Cassandra: [00:18:08] Right. Okay. So switching gears, if someone’s recently lost their home, what would you say to them?

[00:18:18] Jamie: [00:18:18] This is one of the things that it’s…

It’s so nice to say, “Oh yeah, let me know if you need anything.” And it’s great. But I also feel like it’s kind of empty because there were a lot of people that said that to me. And so when I tried to call upon them, it was like, ‘Oh yeah, but I’m busy this week’ or, ‘Yeah, I can’t really do that right now.’ And for me, it was having somebody to watch my son because I had to come back to the house.

I had to try to pick through items… and I didn’t have anyone to even keep [my son]…

So I could do that without exposing him to all this. So it was just little things that I didn’t feel like people were really there. Like when they say, Oh yeah, let [00:19:00] me know if you need anything.

[00:19:01] So I feel like if somebody, you know, has experienced something traumatic, let them know how you can help. If you aren’t able to be there completely, whenever they need to. To have somebody for them, let them know, Hey, if you need a meal, let me know, and I can cook it. Or if you need a gift card here, something to, you know, McDonald’s or whatever the case may be let them know specific ways that you can be there for them.

[00:19:23] Or if you are going to kind of give them a, let me know if you need me live up to it, just kind of be there and understand that they’re not going to be okay to talk about it right away and answer all the questions and kind of go through that whole. Traumatic process that sometimes I don’t, I couldn’t even form full sentences.

[00:19:43] I don’t think for a couple of weeks afterwards, I was just like in zombie mode, like, I don’t know. So just being there, honoring your word, honoring your commitments, and I guess having concrete ideas of how you can assist. I think those are all really [00:20:00] important things.

[00:20:01]Cassandra: [00:20:01] I think that’s really great advice.

[00:20:02] I’m I. I’m good at thinking of some ideas, but I can’t think of all the ideas. So I’m wondering if it would be helpful for me to say, like, what, what are your, like, what are your next steps so that I can figure, is that something that I could ask? Like, what are, what are you doing next? And how can I support you?

[00:20:22] Jamie: [00:20:22] I think that’s really nice to have too, because you’re getting that feedback in that, putting somebody in the moment, because I would get calls or texts like, Hey, what do you need right now? Or what are your kids need? And I’m like, well, I’m living out of hotel, so I really don’t even have any room for anything.

[00:20:34] But thank you for asking, because people would be like, Oh, you can have some clothes or here’s my kid’s old toys, but it’s more about, and it comes from a good place. I’m sure. But in, you know, my reaction where I’m like, I can’t take anything else. I don’t have room for it. There are six of us in hotel room, you know?

[00:20:51] We can’t take it, then it comes off more offensive. Like, Oh, I tried to offer her something and it, you know, she didn’t even want it when it’s not that at all. It’s like, I’m not in a [00:21:00] position to appreciate what you’re trying to do for me right now. So yeah, I think a very good thing would be to ask somebody what is coming up so I can help you.

[00:21:09] And be kind of part of that process rather than just putting somebody on the spot. Like, what do you need right now at this moment at nine 53 and a Tuesday? You know, how can I help you right now? Because chances are, somebody’s going to have no idea.

[00:21:22] Cassandra: [00:21:22] That’s really good advice, Jamie, I think I, I appreciate you sharing such a hard time because you’re naturally just a pretty positive and upbeat person.

[00:21:32] And so but I know during this time that I think that’s probably why you were. Zombie like, cause you’re like, my brain does not process these sorts of things that are happening. I’m looking for the logic and the rationale. And there is no, there is no rationale. It’s just something that happened. And so I love, I love that you were willing to share that because it’s a, it is a really intimate story.

[00:21:56] How long ago, how long ago was the fire now?

[00:22:00] [00:22:00] Jamie: [00:22:00] It was three years ago, last month.

[00:22:02] Cassandra: [00:22:02] Okay. Oh, wow. So it’s still really fresh. I mean, relatively speaking, I mean, I could say that in 30 years would be like, it wasn’t that long ago

[00:22:12]Jamie: [00:22:12] it was a life time ago, but it was also just yesterday. So it’s, there’s, there’s both of those kind of going on at once.

[00:22:18] Cassandra: [00:22:18] Yes. So crazy. Awesome. And I appreciate the like knowing what we can do, because I I’m, again, one of those people that’s like, I think I like, I’m happy to help. I just don’t even know what that means.

[00:22:31] Jamie: [00:22:31] And I think I’m the same way as well. I’ve changed the way I try to react to people going through something, whether it’s a death, whether it’s through a, a breakup or a, you know, something traumatic like this it’s.

[00:22:44] It helps me to help them in a way just to know that wow. Every time I say that it’s kind of empty because Oh yeah. Let me know if you need me. But I’m not actually there if you need me. So it’s helped me to become better in that way.

[00:22:58] Cassandra: [00:22:58] I’m so happy to see you. [00:23:00] And I look forward to talking to you soon. I’ll see you later.

[00:23:02] Jamie: [00:23:02] All right. Thank you so much.

[00:23:04] Cassandra: [00:23:04] Okay, bye bye.

Hanging Up

When Jamie described the importance of making specific offerings and following through, I was nodding like crazy. I love that. She talked about giving people space to process their grief and trauma instead of asking too many questions. Share how you show up for friends in trauma below.

[00:23:20] Thank you for being a great listener and making Jamie feel needed and known.

[00:23:24] Want to talk more between episodes? Follow me on Instagram at needed and known until you need me next time. Bye.

4 Awesome Guest Traits of the Needed and Known Podcast

While the podcast itself is centered around self-improvement and growing through challenges, the guests seem to vary so widely. Below are the answers to your most Needed and Known questions. If yours isn’t on the list, add it in the comments below!

Who are the guests on Needed and Known?

On the Needed and Known podcast I interview a variety of friends. Guests are selected based on their personal stories and willingly agree to be interviewed. I’m not a friend who begs others into discomfort. Many guests are generally positive because that’s who I surround myself with. But they also share openly share their struggles and challenges.

Do you know them all well?

No. While most people I interview I do know well, some guests are people who are field experts I respect. I also ask “big” or “important” people who I think will say “no” because why the heck not?!

Do you agree with everything every guest says?

Who is coming up with these questions?! ???? Of course not! I strive to surround myself with people I don’t necessarily agree with, but with whom I can have deep and meaningful conversations that propel us toward improving together. I encourage you to do the same!

Many of your guests seem to be Christian…

That’s fair. But I also have friends who are atheist, Muslim, Jewish, LGBTQAI+, and so on. As with any interview I want to allow anyone I interview (or befriend) space to be themselves. The purpose of Needed and Known isn’t to broadcast my perspective beyond what it looks like to practice truly listening to others and seeing their perspectives. If I can help others practice hearing from those they don’t understand or think they agree with, then my goal is met.

You didn’t answer my question…

Did I miss a question you have about guests? Please leave yours in the comments below!

Until you need me next time,
Cassandra

« Previous Page

Podcast

Better Friend

I Saw the Sign

Ch-Ch-Changes

Better Friends Avoid Sarcasm

Better Friends Use a Calendar

Better Friends Ask and Listen

Practice

How do I support my loved one through Multiple Sclerosis?

Resources and More Information about Multiple Sclerosis

Transcript

How Allison Met Shane

6 Months of Marital Bliss and Two 21st Birthdays

That Night

What is Multiple Sclerosis?

Diagnosis

Future Changes

Breaking Stereotypes and Silent Diseases

Silent Diseases

Symptoms and the Suck

Encouraging Others From the Mud by Showing Up

Examples of What to Do or Say

Story Wrap-Up

Paycheck-to-Paycheck to Savings

Resources

Transcript

Who is Zap?

Zap Learns About Money

How to Exit Paycheck-to-Paycheck

Percentage Spending Budget

Investing with Credit Cards–WHAT?!

To Rent or To Buy?

Three Risk-Free Beginner Investments

Credit Deals like 0% Interest

Needs Versus Wants Litmus Test

Budgeted Generosity

Resources

Introduction

The Perfect Home

The Phone Call

Where’s the Fire

Hurricane Saved Us

Sleeping After the Fire

Insurance Questions

I’m Not a Material Girl

Show Up for a Friend Through Trauma

Hanging Up

Who are the guests on Needed and Known?

Do you know them all well?

Do you agree with everything every guest says?

Many of your guests seem to be Christian…

You didn’t answer my question…

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